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Ground Rohm E. Pack SA Dagger

Article about: I took a bit of a gamble this week on ebay. This was shown without a grip and did not say it included a grip. It came today with a scabbard (with no paint) and a grip. There was quite a bit

  1. #11

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    Like I said, the 2 marks are not a hammer and foot, but are the letters "E" and "S". If you look under magnification, you'll see that the foot is clearly an "S" and that the angle of the top mark lines up with the slant of the "E" in the logo. It is, definitely the Pack maker's Mark, as I have seen several minute variations with the "E" like this having a spur on the top corner as this one does. This would Not, however, explain why the logo was stamped so far to the right of the blade ridge and it would also not explain away the lower guard clearly being replaced. Pack guards were almost absolutely Flat, and this guard has an obvious curve to it. It's an odd dagger and looks to have several serious problems that are difficult to explain away.

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    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

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  3. #12

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    Hi William I agree also thankyou for the magnification..it looks to be also EP&S.. I cant explain the reason why its off center..as the etch process an supposedly the logo were applied at the same time..or separately by a sub contracted motto etcher..or EP&S themselves. Hard to imagine a Rohm dagger being a "Monday Morning " finished dagger.

    Unfortunately the "A" within the circle with the "5" beneath is undocumented ..as my reference list makers using ( the "A" in circle logo only ) ranging from 9 to 25.......But....EP&S is listed as having 2 forge producer numbers at A13 and A17.

    The mystery deepens or maybe in the early days of 1933..Pack possibly used A5?...that they did such a crap job of etching that they went to another forge company or themselves being A5. Who knows and its all in theory. Something else to take into consideration as this might have been a reject blade found after liberation..and put together...again Theory. No proof to support that either.

    Foundry markings inside the guards may help a little..but not really much to go on..as most dagger producers went for the generic P&A crossguards.

    Hey Matt?................you have a Weird dagger Best Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  4. #13

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    Pack was one of the biggest knife makers in Germany at the time and sourced out many of their blades from other companies. Was this one that was done sloppy by someone else? Like you say, it's hard to imagine-it being for a special presentation piece and all. And there's still the oddity of the lower guard... Pack made many "Flat bottom" guards, but you do see on occasion, some that were the normal curved style, as this one is, in which case any SA lower guard would have a good chance of fitting to it. I agree...it's an odd one!
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  5. #14

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    The logo may not be that far off center... I think the grinding may have formed a new "center line" that pic was taken at an angle. When I get back in the office this week I will take a head on shot of the logo area with the blade out of the grip.

  6. #15

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    Requested pics.

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  7. #16

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    It's hard to see in the pics but both guards are marked with an "S" inside a circle.

  8. #17

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    Hi Matt these are Notorious Ernst Pack Guards..also used on NPEA daggers. Thanks for the pics. The circle of mystery is beginning to close up. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  9. #18

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    So, if you guys don't mind... can we recap? There is a lot of info here...

    Looks to be a Pack blade... of somewhat questionable quality... in matching Pack fittings... with a grip that is not normal for Packs?? Is this the general consensus?

  10. #19

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    Most Pack Grips are of Light Pear wood..with fine wood grain. Not sure of this grip and might be Transitional wood. Not sure..but for this being a Rohm dagger I would expect to see Pear wood. This dagger is very early...but the person who sold this to you said there was no grip..and then WA LA !!! a grip appears. Can you shoot a close up pick of the grip eagle since this is supposed to be early? I have no doubts about the rest of the dagger.except the wood. There are instances that darker woods have been encountered on EP&S daggers..but the majority of them are in Pear.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  11. #20

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    I have to say, that, Personally, I don't see a large problem with the grip. If you look at it under magnification, you can see that the wood has quite alot of uneven and blotchy dark staining either from handling or oil treatment or whatever. Some guys once they got back to the States used to do this to keep the wood from drying out and splitting(they thought,anyway). As for the seller not admitting that there was a grip present, he may have been trying to evade the Draconian Ebay Laws of "No Swastika allowed".
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

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