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Honor S.A Dagger.. good??

Article about: I feel the same... early parts dagger and the biggest sticker for me is Lehmanns entrance to the SA in 1930,,which he would of received his dolch in 1933-34. Why change an early blade to a l

  1. #11

    Default Re: Honor S.A Dagger.. good??

    I feel the same... early parts dagger and the biggest sticker for me is Lehmanns entrance to the SA in 1930,,which he would of received his dolch in 1933-34. Why change an early blade to a late example. I am still not finished with this as I have seen the tang nut and upper crossguard engraved like this before and I will post a photo when i find as it is close at hand..its a matter of finding it.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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  3. #12
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    Default Re: Honor S.A Dagger.. good??

    Quote by Larry C View Post
    Uhmmmmmmmm...........this shows some promise but I will need alot of eyes on this one and research. What has me stumped is the all early period fittings with a Late period blade and I am almost sure Eickhorn did not produce 1939 blades with the squirrel logo. Such ornate work on the crossguards but yet the familair name of Max Lehmann is lacking in defined engraving. I am at work at the moment and do not have access to any of my reference material.

    Jacob where did you get this photo? and I can not put a price on this type dagger until some of the collecting members here can dig into this. Im not liking the all early fittings with a possible repro Late Rzm Blade...... Thoughts?
    thouse photos are from auction site... still 10 days left to the end and price is already 1700$

    Quote by Larry C View Post
    Here is a small bio on Max Lehmann, by an author named Bruce Campbelland his book.."The SA Generals and The Rise of Nazism, Lexington, 2004, pp. 64f.

    Lehmann was the son of a burner. After attending elementary school he completed a commercial apprenticeship. In addition to this, he attended trade school and later a special school for textile industry .

    As a participant in World War Lehmann lost an eye. He also received the Iron Cross 2nd Class .

    At the time of the Weimar Republic Lehmann worked as a textile manufacturer. Between 1918 and 1930, Lehmann was, unusually for a man of his later career to any political or military organization. In September 1930, he finally joined the NSDAP in. In this he first took local administrative duties as coordinator of Nazi Factory Cells Organization true.
    I am very grateful for the info about the owner of the dagger even if its fake one...

  4. #13

    Default Re: Honor S.A Dagger.. good??

    I am sure i have also seen this dagger before somwhere?? i will have a little scout for it.
    cheers Ronnie

  5. #14

    Default Re: Honor S.A Dagger.. good??

    Hello Gents , I manged to track down a few photos coming from Tom Johnsons photo reference,,which includes the SA ..Davejb mentions by the name of Erwin Lindermann. This SA dagger has the checkered grip,, whereas the next 2 photos from the esteemed collection of David Delich who shows the near exact engraving on the cross guards named "Ernst Kraft" take notice to the background pebbling compared to the Max Lehmann example which seems to show some bad casting ..or maybe due to the light of the photo. I have copied 2 photos from the first post for comparison. Any thoughts on the engraving?

    Also take into consideration of the photo quality of the Max Lehmann SA dagger,,as I find it odd for an auction house to take near perfect lighting photos which is normally seen in collections. just a thought
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    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  6. #15

    Default Re: Honor S.A Dagger.. good??

    Hmm...
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  7. #16

    Default Re: Honor S.A Dagger.. good??

    I have also encountered through photographic reference as there are many of these SAs with variant type crossguard engravings and tang nut embellishments. The most common on the tang nut is the Swastika,,on another I have seen a sunburst.
    It seems as though at least the upper crossguard was done by the same engraver,,as it is almost exact and would stand a chance at being authentic. Taking a peek inside the guards would help greatly.
    The dagger posted by "ceies" crossguards look more shallow and has some ,,what looks like impurities in the left side of the guard,,,within the pattern.

    The dedicated name "Max Lehmann" lettering looks to be more crude then the "Ernst Kraft" version. If this is from the same engraver due to the floral pattern then why the difference in depth, and floral design of the engraving.....these are some unanswered questions.

    Not all personalized SA daggers like this one had the Damascus blade as this was an extra amenity for a price,,, but most widely seen on a high leaders dagger. IMO there is some authentic early period parts on here..whether it was parted together with other early parts..is unsure. The engraving leaves me a bit puzzled and the Late blade for sure.....IMO does not belong to it at all. No need to change an early plain blade to a late blade...unless some "Jacka**" broke it back then out of jealously. Just a story on my part but a possibility. The late blade looks authentic also...but together with early parts...Im not sure of. Anything could of happened back then or even recently. The lower guard engraving is not the best if it is the same engraver.

    any other thoughts? Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  8. #17

    Default Re: Honor S.A Dagger.. good??

    I think it looks simply amazing... besides all the hair splitting *and what do I know). It looks real to me.

  9. #18

    Default Re: Honor S.A Dagger.. good??

    Splitting hair is the fun and challenging part but sometimes......and I say sometimes,, the real truth lies behind that hair of doubt if any. Still IMO a parts dagger. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #19

    Default Re: Honor S.A Dagger.. good??

    I agree with Larry-a parts dagger that may well have some outright fake parts included as well. In any way you look at it, this piece has way too many "if's and maybe's" about it to invest any money into. There are far too numerous aspects of this dagger that I just don't feel right about. It Would have been a heck of a find, had it been straight through and through, but I have to say that in my opinion, it isn't.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  11. #20

    Default Re: Honor S.A Dagger.. good??

    Unquestionably IMO a parts dagger, I see what could be casting flaws or maybe tool marks of some kind (?). And the checkering is only so-so. So this dagger would be a first class candidate IMO for being taken apart to see what is going on with its internal aspects.

    I also have an additional Caveat as it regards pictures in books and the Internet. Pictures in books are a collection of dots that are revealed as such when looked at under magnification, and some pictures are better than others. But over time with example after example in books that look OK in the books. Later in person or using close digital examinations, you can see things that really make me question the expertise of whomever may be “vetting” the item or items. And while the great majority are OK - here and there you see what are at best altered originals, and at the worst just high priced postwar trash.

    PS: If you look at the "X" in MAX the bottom has what looks like a round shape unlike a standard graver. And some better really close pictures would be very nice to have. Fred
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