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Karl Malsh SA Dagger

Article about: The rarity scale ranges from #1 being the most common like Eickhorn and Pack to the rarest #10 of examples such as Richard Drees and Wilhelm Krieger

  1. #1

    Default Karl Malsh SA Dagger

    Is there anything special about this maker or dagger? I've got first shot at this one, for $675 from a fellow I met at WAF. It seems a tad rough to me on the blade (which might be somewhat due to the lighting), with a knick to the blade on one side, and the SA logo appears to have most of the enamel missing, which I'm not fond of. I thought I'd post it here before passing it up though, since I'm not yet well versed on SA daggers, to see if I'm passing up on something from a particularly rare maker etc. that would make up for the condition. I've not seen this maker on anything I have looked at, but there were so many makers...

    I'm also open to any "Avenger, you idiot. That's a steal for that dagger!".

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    "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis

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  3. #2

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    It seems a decent price and it isn't a maker I have seen very often. No marks on crossguard?

  4. #3

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    No marks I can see in the photos. That's usually the two character mark you're talking about right? Like "HO".

    I know there's a rarity list out there called something like 1 to 1000. I've not been able to find that list though to reference this maker.
    "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis

  5. #4

    Default

    Love it !! Rarity list a "9" .... outstanding contour ridges seen on the grip are quite sharp.
    The etch is very deep
    There is still prominent crosssgraining
    The grip fit is fabulous and I dont see why not to add the "Ho" Gruppe mark to the list

    The grip lost most of its laquer..but the sharpness is all there. The runes button lost its enameling.
    The Original 3 pc hanger and first variant type snap clip is present.

    WOW Other than it being a bit salty..and the blade will clean up with some simi chrome...this dagger is a steal for that price!!

    YOU WILL NOT FIND ANOTHER RARITY "9" WITH A 3 PC ORIGINAL HANGER ANYWHERE FOR $675

    Yea blade has a knick in it..but would be a great filler until you can upgrade to a better conditioned example...which I dont think you will find this combination of all these early attributes ( price included )

    Hang onto it. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  6. #5

    Default

    By the way..show me the "Ho"........Gruppe mark pictures please so I can add it to the list
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  7. #6

    Default

    Larry this one doesnt seem to have any Gruppe mark as was mentioned, he only referred to HO as an example, avenger you have to decide if a rare maker mark SA in average condition is better then a common maker in great condition, I have seen better looking blades for that price but not a rare maker. Its kind of hard to tell from a picture how well the blade will clean up, you just have to hope it does. I know some arent Gruppe marked, Larry can clear that one up I am far from an expert, I only own 3 he has about 50! LOL

  8. #7

    Default

    Correct, the HO was just an example of what I thought I was being asked about. I don't believe there is any Gruppe mark on this dagger.

    I've asked for brighter light pictures, and for some further detailing. I'm not opposed to this one by any means if it is of a rarity that makes it worth it, which it sounds like it is.

    I appreciate all the feedback guys. I didn't really know where to start on this one.

    BTW, what is the scale on rarity. Is it one to 10, 10 being the rarest? How does that work?
    "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis

  9. #8

    Default

    Gruppe mark for this producer is 'Mi" Mitte ..my apologies for getting excited about a "Ho" gruppe park which are always found off center of the Lower guard.

    Unmarked crossguards are not a red flag....a few things could of happened during the period for there not to be one.
    1. This was an oversight in stamping the Gruppe mark when it reached the SA district.
    2. Unissued- never left the factory
    3. Issued without ceremony upon transfer to the SA district.
    4. Crossguard was damaged and replaced.

    other scenarios of possibilities, but IMO I would lean more as an "Oversight"

    The frequency in sightings when we see 1/1000 means that they are very rare..and is assumed that this producer was given an order of 1000 daggers to complete. The more sightings the less frequency. Which when first documented by SA Guru Mike McAlavanah ( McSaar List Author )..this particular Karl Malsch had only one sighting according to The McSaar list. Truly that frequency has changed as it no longer remains at a "9" but it could be in the range by now of 6/1000. ( 6 sightings out of 1000 ).

    The McSaar list data took 30 years of collecting and documenting and completed in 2009. 5 years later these rare daggers are still being found or coming back out of collections. Those of you who do have the "McSaar" list or even peruse through Ralf Siegerts SA list...take a look at the most common of rarity numbers and the producers within them....and you will come to the same conclusion as myself..that what is deemed common..are hardly seen any more..and should be 8, 9, and 10s !

    Klitterman & Moog appears as a 5 !!...go figure..when was the last time you saw that SA Maker which had an "Nrh" gruppe mark ? This producer is widely recognized as producing early SS daggers..but were affiliated with the Jacobs Co. Wow..>_< a myriad of unanswered trails..as is with why there are some SA guards that are unmarked.

    I would not mind owning an SA dagger with no Gruppe mark. The craftmanship is all there.
    Still IMO these are very scarce.....That could put it at a 6 or 7 in rarity.

    Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #9
    ?

    Default

    You would have a hard time finding a nice three piece hanger for $200. So really your really buying the dagger for under $500. That seems like a very good price.

  11. #10

    Default

    The rarity scale ranges from #1 being the most common like Eickhorn and Pack to the rarest #10 of examples such as Richard Drees and Wilhelm Krieger
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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