Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Need some opinions on EP&S Full Rohm SA dagger...

Article about: Thanks for the feedback everyone. I decided to pass on it, even for reference. No sense in spending the money when I have some pretty decent photos I can still reference. Thanks again! Dzyne

  1. #1
    ?

    Default Need some opinions on EP&S Full Rohm SA dagger...

    Hi all,

    I know this one has some problems, mainly with the blade (e.g. the fit of the blade to the lower guard, and some grinding issues near the tang), but I wanted to open it up for discussion since it is a potentially rare dagger, being a full Rohm and all. Even if it is a put together piece, which evidence suggests it is, I'd still like to snag it if the price is right.

    Thoughts??

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohm1.jpg 
Views:	114 
Size:	54.0 KB 
ID:	384452

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohm2.jpg 
Views:	158 
Size:	65.7 KB 
ID:	384451

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohm9.jpg 
Views:	165 
Size:	142.7 KB 
ID:	384446

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohm4.jpg 
Views:	90 
Size:	92.4 KB 
ID:	384449

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohm5.jpg 
Views:	115 
Size:	87.1 KB 
ID:	384450

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohm6.jpg 
Views:	105 
Size:	96.1 KB 
ID:	384448

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohm7.jpg 
Views:	195 
Size:	86.7 KB 
ID:	384447

    Thanks!
    Dzyner

    I collect WW2 German SA Daggers.

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    P
    Many
     

  3. #2

    Default Re: Need some opinions on EP&S Full Rohm SA dagger...

    Who wants to start?
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  4. #3
    ?

    Default Re: Need some opinions on EP&S Full Rohm SA dagger...

    Is the blade at least good in anyone's opinion? If the blade is good it still has value.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Need some opinions on EP&S Full Rohm SA dagger...

    Definitely a put together. The lower guard is not that of a Pack SA. Pack's are very Flat and this one is the usual full curved type. This would explain why the blade does not fit flush as it should, as it would in a factory made piece. The top guard does not fit at all well with the grip either. Is this a genuine Röhm blade? I doubt it quite abit. The etching looks on the crude side and the signature in the last photo looks like a different coloring than the dedication. Also, there is no district stamping on the guard either that I can see. Personally, I have the feeling that it is a parts dagger that someone has stuck a fake Röhm blade on.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  6. #5

    Default Re: Need some opinions on EP&S Full Rohm SA dagger...

    Wagriffs comments are right on!! The blade itself is a better made repro as the inscription on the back is very shallow in depth. The logo is the stamped variety commonly seen also with Luft daggers. Almost to where you can take an eraser and wipe it out. The crossgrain is not early and a very weak attempt to pass it as real as it is the kind we see on Repros on RZM daggers. Early and late crossgraining are far and wide apart, in difference. Early is VERY HARD to copy.
    As Wagriff stated about the guard not being a Pack guard is so true. When we see a Rohm dagger we must first stop and think that these daggers were not just put together to make a quota,, but assembled carefully as they were honor daggers. Everything must fit to be precise. Rohm daggers especially Pack Rohms should not have any gaps even for dental floss to get between them especially in the blade shoulder to guard fit. The grip eagle looks replaced at some time. For a Rohm dagger it is not too presentable. I would like to see the inside of the cross guards,, but i know that might be impossible from the seller as the upper and lower might be mismatched. Scary thing to see a Rohm dagger being opened which should set off sirens. Anytime anyone opens a dagger and you can see the subtle differences,, "Buyer beware".
    sadly though many Rohm daggers are easily dismissed ( good ones ) because of appearance,, it only takes one time for the keen eye of a collector to see. Whereas if the same instances were on a standard em33 it is more commonly accepted, and bought with caution. IMO Darren save your money and if it is being sold very cheaply and I mean very cheap,,buy it for reference and study it. That choice is yours.many collectors will buy fakes at a reasonable price just as a reference,, and theres nothing like a good reference book or an actual dagger to refer back to. best regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  7. #6
    ?

    Default Re: Need some opinions on EP&S Full Rohm SA dagger...

    Thanks for the feedback guys! Larry, I really appreciate the time you put into your reply. Too often I see short replies (e.g. "not for me", "nope", etc), but I really appreciate it when someone helps to educate me on the reasons as you and Wagriff often do in my posts.

    Before this thread falls to the archive list, I received a few more photos this morning in my inbox from the seller that I'll go ahead and post since I have them. They are certainly MUCH clearer and more detailed than the others, not sure if it will change the perspective of the conversation. I also spoke to the owner (he called me after I explained all of the issues to him). He mentioned the "nut" at the top of the handle is not completely tight, which got me thinking. Have a look at the blade in the new photos... it is on backwards. This may partly explain the fit issue of the blade against the lower guard. Most of us have disassembled SA daggers before, and some (like me) may have even accidentally reassembled the parts incorrectly. I know from experience that placing the guards onto the grip incorrectly can indeed affect how well the blade seats.

    Also, as you can see in the new photos, the lower guard is indeed marked "Nrh", which is a mark that has been associated with Pack daggers...

    eps röhm dagger - GermanDaggers.com
    https://www.lakesidetrader.com/item.php?ID=7243
    https://www.lakesidetrader.com/item.php?ID=5485

    Please have a look over the new photos and let me know what you guys think. I'm a big boy... if you still think this is a bad dagger then I'll accept it. I may still buy it (if the seller agrees to a repro price), for reference and study as Larry mentioned.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohm10.jpg 
Views:	106 
Size:	122.0 KB 
ID:	384763

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohm12.jpg 
Views:	93 
Size:	114.3 KB 
ID:	384765

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohm11.jpg 
Views:	136 
Size:	186.6 KB 
ID:	384764

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rohm13.jpg 
Views:	121 
Size:	109.2 KB 
ID:	384766

    Thanks!
    Dzyner

  8. #7
    ?

    Default Re: Need some opinions on EP&S Full Rohm SA dagger...

    Omg, somebody tooked the dagger apart and putted him back in each other but in the wrong way...!!!
    'Alles für Deutschland' should be on the front where the eagle and SA-logo is!!!

  9. #8

    Default Re: Need some opinions on EP&S Full Rohm SA dagger...

    Sorry, but that's still not a Pack lower guard on it. The curve of it is very clear to see. Even if you would turn it around, it wouldn't help the fit much, as it, basically, isn't made to mate with a Pack blade. Here is a blatantly stolen photo of what I meant by a flat guard on the Pack's. It's alot better than any I could take, so it's been "borrowed" from another site. The Nrh mark (Niederrheim) is good, but was widely used on many daggers, so, unfortunately, it doesn't tell us much. As Larry said, these pieces were all hand fitted and assembled-they were "Specials" and therefore merited extra attention. And, not to kick the dead horse much, but the engraving is just not clear and crisp as it should be. I still think it's a parts job with a phony blade. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	packguard.jpg 
Views:	226 
Size:	44.0 KB 
ID:	384784
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  10. #9

    Default Re: Need some opinions on EP&S Full Rohm SA dagger...

    You can take it apart again, and put it the right way, right?

  11. #10

    Default Re: Need some opinions on EP&S Full Rohm SA dagger...

    Perfect example William :) and for reference purposes only,, its a great photo which shows a typical pack crossguard and a typical semi ground logo which is commonly seen on ground pack Rohms.... No claim!!!.... No shame!cool militaria It has that flat look on the bottom. Eickhorn and Pack were the largest distributors of daggers through out Germany,,so Pack had quite a few Gruppe marks including rarely seen "B". The gruppe mark itself was applied in the district it went to and not buy the producer. The SA High leadership ordered daggers from specific makers and sent them on to were the SA Mann was to serve in that district. From that point a guy with a punch set probably sat in a small room,, fulfilling his "non spectacular" role for the fatherland. :( True in house Pack guards will exhibit this foundry mark in the photo below. Take notice first to the foundry mark which is the "S" within the horseshoe or wreath so to say,, this is a true pack guard which is flat on the bottom as William has said. Also notice the difference in the accent grooving on both the guards. The upper has thicker grooves and marked with an "H" and a dot. This is an Eickhorn guard, which came off my Pack dagger along with the lower guard. I am going to take a guess because of the angle of the photos that the lower guard on your dagger shown is an Eickhorn guard ( should be internally marked ),,,and this guard does not belong with a Pack Rohm example. Crossguards are a big study between early and late. Dig around and compare photos and daggers side by side,, gauranteed you will see something different every time.. these little subtleties will shine just like you see the glint of a diamond. If the price is super dirt cheap and you want it for reference only,, it would make a great reference tool, as one day you will have a real Pack Rohm dagger to compare it to. Regards Larry
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	crs.gd 1.JPG 
Views:	195 
Size:	119.7 KB 
ID:	384794   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	crs.gd 2.JPG 
Views:	278 
Size:	121.7 KB 
ID:	384795  

    Last edited by Larry C; 08-21-2012 at 02:07 AM.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Need opinions on SS Rohm Hammesfahr dagger...

    In SS Dienstdolch, 1933 & 1936
    10-03-2011, 03:46 PM
  2. My Full SA Rohm

    In SA Dienstdolch
    06-28-2010, 07:53 AM
  3. 06-26-2010, 07:22 AM
  4. 03-12-2009, 01:36 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •