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Nskk rzm 7/12

Article about: Hi I recently bought this NSKK My concern about this is the offcenter rzm mark. Is it a fake. I like the crossgrains though. Reg Lars

  1. #41

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    Quote by Frogprince View Post
    most likely earlier in 1942 when manufacture was stopped. With My Best regards, Fred
    Where did you get 1942? I am aware daggers were only available "sehr beschränkt", which means very limited available then!
    Anyway from the one or the other manufacturer.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    advertisement from the "Uniformen-Markt"-magazine from August 1942.
    Last edited by Wilhelm Saris; 08-16-2016 at 05:00 PM.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

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  3. #42

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    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    Where did you get 1942? I am aware daggers were only available "sehr beschränkt", which means very limited available then!
    Anyway from the one or the other manufacturer.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	D-1 UM 15-08-1942.jpg 
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ID:	989599

    advertisement from the "Uniformen-Markt"-magazine from August 1942.
    Wilhelm, Thank you for a valuable piece of information that does add to the discussion. 1942 is from dated RZM controlled daggers and knives. With the only 1943 date I've seen on the completely fake "Krupp" daggers. 1942 is also when the quality of made for the German Army/Wehrmacht bayonets began to decline not only in finishing, but also with the substitution of materials. Which is not to say that items that had been stockpiled or unsold/still available could not be obtained, because along with his announcement of the termination of the award of SS swords Himmler advised those SS members who required daggers to go to a specific SS clothing counter where they could still be obtained. And I have a reference by a U.S. author that I'm still tracking down as to the source for verification, where the German Navy ordered a quantity of daggers in 1943 that was denied by Albert Speer. With 1943 also when you see a more rapid drop-off in quality for many German Army/Wehrmacht items that suggest that producers were having significant problems keeping up with the demands of the military. And the civilian market for all sorts of commodities fading into little or nothing that is probably a discussion all to itself. With My Best Regards, Fred
    Last edited by Frogprince; 08-16-2016 at 10:57 PM. Reason: typo correction

  4. #43

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    would like to see the note as mentioned with: "1942 is from dated RZM controlled daggers and knives".

    Checked all 1942 issues. Nothing is said about it!
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  5. #44

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    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    would like to see the note as mentioned with: "1942 is from dated RZM controlled daggers and knives".

    Checked all 1942 issues. Nothing is said about it!
    Hello Wilhelm, the information was not from notes it's from the items themselves. Here is one example which is a 1942 dated SA dagger which I consider as late wartime manufacture for dress/political etc. blades. Not that 1942 is actually late wartime production, it's just that some dealers (and/or collectors) who don't collect military items seem to have a somewhat off center/skewed idea IMO as to what late wartime means (and an even more unrealistic point of view by those who speak of supposedly "last ditch" blades in the non-military category). With Best Regards, Fred
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #45

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    Apparently I had not understood it right.
    Here some images related to the stopping of manufacturing:

    already shown the note from February 20, 1943 from the "Mitteilungsblatt der RZM" where it is mentioned
    no more SA and NSKK dagers were to be manufactured, the HJ dagger as well:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Shortly thereafter a note from the "Deutsche Uniformen-Zeitschrift" from May 31, 1943:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    an advertisement, which with regularity was shown in the same magazine during summer and
    fall 1943 where it is said daggers are not available. As soon as this would be possible purchasing
    was possible again. This however did not happen:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    a note from February-March 1945 with the same remark:
    "sobald die Herstellung wieder möglich ist, wird wieder geliefert":

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Other manufacturers hardly did advertise in 1944 and early 1945.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  7. #46

    Default

    Quote by Wilhelm Saris View Post
    Apparently I had not understood it right.
    Here some images related to the stopping of manufacturing:

    already shown the note from February 20, 1943 from the "Mitteilungsblatt der RZM" where it is mentioned
    no more SA and NSKK dagers were to be manufactured, the HJ dagger as well:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	D-2a MBL.RZM 20-02-43.jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	179.8 KB 
ID:	989835

    Shortly thereafter a note from the "Deutsche Uniformen-Zeitschrift" from May 31, 1943:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	D-2 DUZ 31-05-1943.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	179.1 KB 
ID:	989836

    an advertisement, which with regularity was shown in the same magazine during summer and
    fall 1943 where it is said daggers are not available. As soon as this would be possible purchasing
    was possible again. This however did not happen:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	D-3 DUZ summer-fall  1943.jpg 
Views:	24 
Size:	190.3 KB 
ID:	989837

    a note from February-March 1945 with the same remark:
    "sobald die Herstellung wieder möglich ist, wird wieder geliefert":

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	D-4 DUZ feb-mrt 1945.jpg 
Views:	26 
Size:	86.3 KB 
ID:	989838

    Other manufacturers hardly did advertise in 1944 and early 1945.
    Hello Again Wilhelm, Once again you’ve outdone yourself with period information. Information that disproves some of the fantasies (and misinformation) that is out there for sale to collectors. With the above on the civilian side, on the German military side later in the war is when some German rifles were made without service bayonet attachments. And still later some makers who had been making rifles with them stopped doing so. With the OKW formalizing the matter late in the war as it regarded terminating the manufacture of service bayonets, I will see if I can find the order for posting. Below: Not quite at the end of the manufacturing cycle for service bayonets here are a pair of bayonets made in 1944 from one maker in OEM condition that shows some of how the manufacturing standards had slipped. Noting that they are variable by maker and these are not the worst. With My Best Regards, Fred

    PS: My underlying point here to readers of the thread being that all of these things are interconnected and based on what was happening during the war and before. Not opinions from individuals who've made a lot of guesses that have no actual basis (and regrettably very often turn out to be wrong and costly for those who end up with items that are junk). With my one regret being that I didn't have some of these facts when I was dealing in person with some of these guys - who put up a good front as supposed experts that turned out to be much less, or worse.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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