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Origins of the SA 3 pc Marching Hanger

Article about: Hi Neo..yes it is authentic..and a rarer SA vertical hanger. These SA coffin hangers are more rare than the SS coffin hangers..there are not as many around. This one is a bit crusty in condi

  1. #1

    Default Origins of the SA 3 pc Marching Hanger

    A Big Thankyou to Wilhelm Saris for bringing to light the Origins of the " Small retaining loop", on the SA 3 pc marching hanger in this thread below. Many have been led to believe that the 3pc Hanger seen on SA daggers , all originated at the time of the 1933 production run of the SA dagger. This not true and only the dagger with the small straight hanger were issued...being attached to an equipment type belt loop with "D" Ring.

    Wilhelm Saris has provided great insight..with period documentation of 1935 to support the year of first production regarding the small retainer loop seen attached around the top part of the grip to hold the dagger in a Vertical marching position. An Anti-Swing attachment so to say.

    I would like to call this the "1935 Marching Hanger Variant" Regards Larry
    Last edited by Larry C; 09-21-2014 at 03:18 AM.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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  3. #2

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    The official drawings when the Feststellriemen was introduced,
    April 15, 1935.
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    Last edited by Larry C; 09-21-2014 at 03:20 AM.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  4. #3

    Default

    Hi Wilhelm..thankyou for the period image. My German Translation is not the best and the word " Feststellriemen " comes back to me as "traction strips" . We Know that the Standard SA dagger was introduced in January 1933..and which it must of had some type of hanging device..prior to 1935..or is it my understanding that the word " "Feststellriemen " is for the short retainer loop that goes arounD the top of the grip?
    "D" ring Belt Loops already were standard wear prior to 1935..and also the short hanger as of 1933. My apologies for not being able to translate the Old style Gothic text in the image you provided. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  5. #4

    Default

    The little leather strap from the hanger, is the Feststellriemen (a sort of fastening
    strap), as shown in the drawing. This was introduced April 1935. Not earlier. The
    order says "with immediate entry". If there was another kind of vertical hanger, is
    not mentioned in regulations.

    In the uniform-regulation (AO - Anzugs-Ordnung) from early 1934 there was the ring with
    larger leather strap and carabine-hook mentioned. I am not good in adding letters to an
    order, so I did it provisional.

    The AO gives the how and what for wearing of the dagger with the various dress-forms:

    A sort of Koppelschuh/Seitengewehrtasche, as was used by the SS, was not mentioned
    (as far as I know). Not until 1939 anyway!
    The carabiner-hook with post 1 does not look "political".
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    Last edited by Larry C; 09-21-2014 at 03:21 AM.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  6. #5
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    There are quite a few different vertical hangers known belonging to the 1933-1934 period
    here a few different examples, i have at least seen a handfull of different type Vertical hangers belonging to that period.
    I agree Larry, the hanger shown here is a period Original, seen that snap before on verticals.
    Regards,
    Ger
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    Last edited by Larry C; 09-21-2014 at 03:22 AM.

  7. #6
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    Thx Wilhelm for the period scan of the 3 piece hanger, nice addition to the post

    Ger

  8. #7

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    This hanger (post 4) remained the only official hanger through the years for the SA, but we
    all know others were used as well (see post from Gerrit). Much variations were developed,
    but not sanctioned by the OSAF.
    No other information was noted in the "Verordnungsblatt der Oberste SA-Führung" after 1937.

    Additional information: when in August 1937 the uniform for Reiter-SA was announced and
    published (order F 2b Nr. 136704), it was said: Dolch mit Feststellriemen. When mounted
    officially no dagger was worn. Note from Verordnungsblatt der OSAF, number 11 from
    August 1937. Page 83, with number 239.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  9. #8

    Default

    Great information Wilhelm and Gerrit..another piece of the puzzle added to the large collecting picture. Hmmm the question now is ...was the existing 2 pc hangers prior to the 1935 hanger variant ordered back to the leather maker..or is there an existing order that states..that these must be taken to a local leather maker for the addition. The retaining loop was fastened with a hammer and punch..around the D ring.
    This pretty much shoots the theory that these retaining loops were pulled off and thrown away..yet the option was still present to take it off by the SA man for aesthetic reasons. Hard now to differentiate in the span of 2 years if a 1933 2 pc hanger is identifiable as such ..that of the 1935 year with the retainer loop. Presently the 1935 hanger variant is more so appealing than the 2 pc hanger.

    Thank you again Wilhelm for your Omni present knowledge of this political organization and its accoutrements. Best Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #9

    Default

    The only thing I know and is said with the order, the small piece of leather
    was available from the sales stores from the RZM (Verkaufsstellen).
    So, the hanger, used earlier, was the same as before 1935. This you can
    conclude from the 1934 dress-regulation.
    In first instance only the upper part was used (Schlaufe mit D-Ring). When
    the lower part came with snap, I do not know. Might be late 1933, as hanging
    onto the D-ring only was not convinient.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  11. #10

    Default

    Maybe a nice photograph for the interested dagger-"clan", as Larry C and Gerrit,
    from my Stahlhelm files:

    Franz Seldte, the Bundesführer from the Stahlhelm-organization, wearing (with a
    seldom seen occasion) the SA-dagger with hanger.

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    The Stahlhelm person at right, seems to wear a bayonet with pommel.
    The wearing of a bayonet in this organization is even rarer, I think! In no
    regulation this was mentioned.

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    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

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