Personalized - Early SA Puma Dagger

[benpitch]

Hello Collectors!

I picked this Personalized Puma Dagger up several weeks ago and was looking for some more information on the inscription (particularly who the person might be)? The etched inscription reads, "Der Sturm 1/115 Heinrich Kothmann seinem Trupps. K. Fritsoh” The top-right hand portion was poorly peeled off leaving the fourth character of the “Kothmann” name unspecified.

Any info is much appreciated! Thanks in advance...

Ben

Here's the link to better pics and full description from Lakesidetrader: Personalized - Early SA Dagger by Puma | Lakesidetrader

[Larry C]

The SA Organizational structure is very large and expansive....I did look under the SA Gruppe "Wm" further looking into the brigade numbers and within the Brigades then to the Fuss Standarte and then to the Sturmbann.... I do not see a listing for Sturm 1 /115.

The forum has collectors here who know SA rank designations and uniforms and they may be able to comment on the SA Gruppe Westmark Sturm 1/115.

The SA gruppe mark "Wm" Westmark is correct for this Lauterjung / Puma producer...the names Kothmann and Fritsch will me more difficult as there is no SA service list available and only bits and pieces do exist but not fully as seen with SS men and officers.

Regards Larry

[Finngaill]

Dagger has a correct gruppe mark for Puma as Larry mentioned. Grip fittings looks good.

But about the Standarte 115, it located at Darmstadt Gruppe Hessen "He". It might be located in different places also, but not in my knowledge

[benpitch]

Thanks much Larry...hopefully someone can elaborate on the SA rank designations pertaining to the Westmark Sturm 1/115.

Ben

[benpitch]

Thanks much Finngaill ! Very interesting considering the territory "He" adjoins "Wm" so the 1/115 brigade could've been located in nearby locations I assume as territories shifted for logistics/ war efforts.

[Kilian]

The Hessian State Archives appear to have personnel files of SA Standarte 115 in Darmstadt. Maybe Truppführer K. Fritsch is on their list. You can ask. But even if he is, I’m also a bit puzzled by the discrepancy Hessen vs Westmark and why a botched etch that was intended for a gift to the Truppführer was not properly redone at the time.

[Larry C]

Correct me if I am wrong...there is a difference between a Standarte and Sturm ? ...as I listed above

Brigade to Standarte to Sturm.....on the blade it is listed as Sturm 1/115.

I agree also that if this was a presentation gift dagger ...those soldiers who chipped in to purchase this dedication dagger should of had the dedication re-inscribed.

Regards Larry

[Kilian]

Correct. The way I read it is the troop leader (Truppführer) of Sturm no. 1 of Standarte no. 115. Standarte 115 was based in Darmstadt and the surrounding area (Kreis). As this is an early dagger (1930’s), I do not believe the borders of Gau Hessen had changed into parts of Westmark due to the war at this stage, if they ever changed.

[Finngaill]

Like Kilian said. The first number indicate a Sturm and second numbers for Standarte.

If it would have Roman numerals, it indicate for a Sturmbann. Same rules apply on the collar tabs.


Staff of Sturmbann III Standarte 261 Tauberbischofsheim Gruppe Südwest





Staff of Reiterstandarte 61 Hannover Gruppe Niedersachsen

[Larry C]

Thanks TJ ...now I have a better understanding ...which I had it in reverse.

Regards Larry