Question about the manufacture of early nickel grip eagles...
Hi all. Does anyone have period photos showing a plant worker hand tooling an early solid nickel grip eagle, or documentation related to the construction process of a typical early solid nickel grip eagle for SS, SA, etc daggers? Were these indeed hand tooled, or were they die struck (or a combination of both)? I'm trying to confirm how the manufacturing process worked with these. Were they partially die-struck, and partially hand tooled (e.g. the shallower details were die-struck while the deeper recesses (such as the Swastika arms) were hand tooled), or were they all die-struck, or all hand-tooled?
04-19-2014 05:22 PM
Hi Dzyner....period photos of this nature are difficult to find especially a worker handling grip eagles. Grip eagles were made by a few different producers of the RZM M1 department...Ralf Siegert shows on pg 40 of his SA reference.. 2 such producers... RZM M1/ 47 C. Dick Ludenscheid co. and RZM M1/ 17 Assman & Sohn co. aka Arthur Schuttlehoffer.
The photo below is from a company RZM M1/6..unknown at the present moment until I can dig out my reference. It apears to me that the grip eagle may have been a 2 piece construction....and later IMO a complete injection mold ..all in one process. I am not sure of th authenticity of the M1/6...but it is identical in nature to the Asso example.
I feel these were die struck unless someone can comment on the production process more so than I...but it appears to be diestruck
On some producers as seen there are high necked varieties..and beaks slightly pointing upward...different wing feathering and talons. swaz wreath back ground pebbling is the same mostly on all wreaths. below is a couple of pics of just the grip eagle..i hope it helps some..and the thread is open for any other information.
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- Larry C
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I agree with Ger. These were all die struck without any hand work. We do know of some die flaws that resulted over time.
All except the very earliest were 2 piece constructed.
As stated they were die struck however - the tool and die makers who made the die sets themselves made them (the die sets) by hand. Nice images of the eagles. Fred
Of course die sets were made by hand.
Can you give me any examples of die sets that were not?
I don't understand your point?
Since the die sets were made by hand, there will be minute differences amongst the eagles produced by them. Some of these eagles may be confused for being hand tooled, as they are different from another example when compared.
"Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."
Paul, I was just trying to give an answer to Dzyner:
Who asked a question about something where he wanted an answer. But now that you have asked your own question about examples that were not made by hand, there is and was a process that uses a master die to make other dies. In other words mechanically. And why would that be an issue unless you think that dies were only made by hand? Regards, Fred
Dzyner - "Were these indeed hand tooled, or were they die struck (or a combination of both)?.......................Were they partially die-struck, and partially hand tooled (e.g. the shallower details were die-struck while the deeper recesses (such as the Swastika arms) were hand tooled), or were they all die-struck, or all hand-tooled?"
That I imagine might account for most or at least many of the variations because the authorized individual makers had their own die sets with the different RZM numbers. And of course as mentioned by Paul, flaws from a single maker's die set which could range from a die breaking down, to just a minuscule piece of metal sticking to a die face. Best Regards, Fred
Thanks for all the feedback guys, and thanks for the excellent photos Larry and Ger. Sorry for not posting back in a while. The main reason for my original question was so I could understand how this particular eagle could come to be without a cut Swastika arm...
The feedback I've received since posting this question is that the die that produced this particular eagle was "plugged", which is in-line with Fred's comment. I find it fascinating that this eagle made it through not only its own manufacture quality checks, but all the way through to the issuing of the dagger! A real unique piece in my option.