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SA Dagger With Green Scabbard

Article about: Gentlemen: I am a very elderly man and I have collected Third Reich objects for over 50 years. On two occasions, I have acquired SA daggers with green finished scabbards instead of the norma

  1. #1

    Default SA Dagger With Green Scabbard

    Gentlemen:

    I am a very elderly man and I have collected Third Reich objects for over 50 years. On two occasions, I have acquired SA daggers with green finished scabbards instead of the normal brown finish, directly from WWII veterans.

    I have been told SA daggers with green finished scabbards were used by SA Forestry units.

    Would anyone have any information about these unusual SA daggers?

    Best regards,

    Clay

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  3. #2

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    Hi Clayton welcome to the forum...No such documentation exists for SA forestry Units regarding Green dagger scabbards. Our advanced Uniform Specialists here can attest to that fact ..and will be able to give more insight on the sub organization itself. Wilhelm Saris is one such advanced and seasoned collector and authored many types of Third Reich Uniforms in wear references.

    Green scabbards do exist and were created for the NPEA Student daggers of that organization ..which were of that color. None exist for the SA.
    Photos of your green scabbard...would be appreciated..and could also help identify exactly through construction and materials used.

    Photos when you get a chance please..would help greatly. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  4. #3

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    No such thing as SA forestry units existed.

    This may simply be a misunderstanding/mistranslation of the term SA-Jägerstandarten [SA Jäger Regiments]:

    Jäger means "huntsman", but also refers to a light infantryman. (Which is no coincidence, as these units - whose history dates back to the 17th century - were originally made up of foresters and professional huntsmen, taking advantage of their knowledge and skills in marksmanship, bushcraft, orientation, tracking etc.)

    With those SA units, the term referred to the military meaning of the term, as they were seen to maintain the long Jäger tradition.

  5. #4

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    Hello Larry C;

    Thank you very much for the response. These unusual daggers were in my possession many years ago; long before computers, digital cameras, cell phone cameras, and all the rest of it were in common use. I wish I had photographs of those daggers but we didn't take photgraphs of our items in those days like modern day collectors do.

    I can tell you, both of these daggers had scabbards with a dark green finish. I have seen olive hued brown NPEA scabbards but that color was not the green color of these two daggers that I am refering to. And what was stranger, if memory serves us, one dagger scabbard was lacquered and the other was anodized. Both scabbards had a distinctive dark green color.

    I remember asking Tom Johnson about SA daggers with green scabbards at a very early MAX Show and he indicated he had seen or knew of these daggers. Although we never saw a mention of this in any of his reference books.

    In any event, we very much appreciate your response to our inquiry and your very friendly welcome to this fine forum.

    Our very best regards,

    Clay

  6. #5

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    Hi Clayton..thankyou for your reply..to add to the mystery of the Green scabbard...the forum would love to see photos of hat you have detailed..including myself. When these daggers were created ..they were created for doctrine and to be politically charged. Brown for the SA ,,Brown and Black for the NSKK ..and all Black for the SS..Im sure you know of these variations I speak of..... ( but I have to repeat them for the new collectors reading for the first time )

    Hard to imagine Pure Green ..and Im sure Tom Johnson had "Seen" them. Yet sadly if it were such a true existence..these daggers would be placed in a category of junk or messed with.

    HPL2008 above who the forum is grateful to have..lives in that country..and has first hand knowledge and documentation of the existence of all political Gruppes. When these daggers were first produced..there were testing processes of anodized applications and paint....Not say this is true..but the possibility is there..as a " Test piece ??
    Not sure ... but the 2 gents above I listed have delved deeply into the uniform and organization subject. In this hobby anything is possible..yet to solidify those possibilities .. ( photos are a must ) and are the beginning to research ...and documentational support ..included other witness sightings.

    Im surprised Atwood who got there first before Johnson had made no mention of this..ans surely he would of jumped on the opportunity train to push these rarities in his Reference books.

    Regardless...these are the present facts that surround us ..in a large and still unexplored hobby. Best Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  7. #6

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    Hello Larry;

    Thank you for your intelligent and reasonable response. I would invite our fellow members who collect daggers to remember our little discussion here. I'm very confident in the years to come more of these SA daggers with green scabbards will surface. And maybe these strange objects will merit further thought.

    Thanks to all who read this thread and listened to this old man's memories.

    Best regards to all,

    Clay

  8. #7

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    Paint yes, and you can anodize aluminum (an oxide), and also color it to a dark green color by dying it, but not with a steel scabbard. With the so-called “anodizing" in German known as Brünierung (browning), with the Germans using an entirely different word for anodizing. Which during the time of the TR period - Brünierung referring to both the blued and brown colored iron/steel oxide finishes. (Which is also why you never see period German rifles, machine guns etc. labeled as having an “anodized” finish.) I've never ever seen one myself, were there aluminum SA scabbards? Best Regards, Fred

  9. #8

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    As I myself did not have time for looking at this subject (as I told with another thread),
    I asked a friend of mine, who is well knowledged with forestry and related organizations.
    This is his answer:

    In no regulation or the Ministerialblatt or whatever I have seen mentioned something
    related to the SA and forestry. The green scabbard only is to discuss when proof
    is delivered from original and official sources.

    There is no reason whatsoever why an SA dagger would have been worn by forestry,
    which is a state organization.
    Maybe someone has heard about the SS-Forstamt and has put this equally to the SA.
    SS-forestry did wear the regular SS uniform and with that a green scabbard is not
    logical at all.
    In short: a totally improbable "story"!!
    Last edited by Wilhelm Saris; 09-14-2015 at 12:04 PM.
    "Wir sollen auch unser Leben für die Brüder lassen" (1.Joh.3.16):
    zum Gedächtnis Wilhelm Schenk. Er starb fürs Vaterland am 13. Juni 1916

  10. #9

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    Hello Wilhelm Saris;

    Thank you very much for your excellent contribution. I have no idea why these two daggers had green scabbards. For me its just another mystery in this wonderful hobby.

    Best regards to you and everyone who took the time to read this thread.

    Clay

  11. #10

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    they are selling an sa with green scabbard in wehrmacht awards forum you can check the photos here Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

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