Sa dagger grip with scratch

[Larboard]

Yes, maybe "the wood is different", maybe it's not the standard wood used in the grips that had tiger stripe grips (maybe it's a homemade grip), but that's a long ways from saying that the tiger striping was achieved with sandpaper.... IMO, whether it is an original grip or not it looks real figured wood.

It's easy enough to tell, move the wood around under a table lamp, it will change with the different angles. To accentuate the effect, unless the wood is varnished (doesn't look like it), you can rub in a little Walnut oil or similar, and it really makes the grain pop.

While I may not know much about SA grip handles, I've been looking at guitars like this for the last 30 years (these are mine), so I'm pretty familiar with "quarter sawn" flame maple, oak, etc, quite a few woods can have this "figure" is sawn properly. If it was possible to get this look by sanding, the el cheapo guitar companies would have been all over it years ago. The only "fake" tiger stripe ever seen on a guitar was the "Fotoflame" Fenders out of Japan in the 90's and that was airbrushed and very obvious to the trained eye.

I suppose you could try to get this effect with careful staining in stripes, but it would be obvious, and have no 3D effect as you move it around.

[dzyner]

After seeing the latest pic that Luca added, I'm feeling a lot better about the grip. That said, still post the requested photos for a final review. I think the original pics Luca posted were simply poor quality and show "artifacts" that detract from the true quality of the grip.

[Larboard]

Ger, I went and read the thread, and wow... you're saying that tiger striped SA and NSKK dagger grips are just tarted up plain pieces of wood burned with a flame to get this effect? Sounds completely ridiculous but as we all sadly know too well, "truth can be stranger than fiction"...

There's no reason to use a torch to get this effect, lots of woods have it built in. I can't even believe the factories that made high end daggers would resort to such shenanigans to have "figured" handles.

I've seen and handled dozen of high end rifle stocks, some M1 Garand stocks (Match rifles) have knock out tigerstriping and trust me, it's not "burned on"...

If this was the case with the German dagger handles, I'm starting to understand why we won the war

The Haenel I just recently posted about had some tiger stripe in the handle, and it was real, as part of the Oak grain. Very 3D, changed as you moved around, not all stripes visible at all times, such as it is with real actual tiger striped wood.

Quarter sawn Oak is famous for its beautiful and very striking figure, as is Maple.

Anyway, live and learn something new everyday, if you're lucky...

[Gwar]

Yes, maybe "the wood is different", maybe it's not the standard wood used in the grips that had tiger stripe grips (maybe it's a homemade grip), but that's a long ways from saying that the tiger striping was achieved with sandpaper.... IMO, whether it is an original grip or not it looks real figured wood.

It's easy enough to tell, move the wood around under a table lamp, it will change with the different angles. To accentuate the effect, unless the wood is varnished (doesn't look like it), you can rub in a little Walnut oil or similar, and it really makes the grain pop.

While I may not know much about SA grip handles, I've been looking at guitars like this for the last 30 years (these are mine), so I'm pretty familiar with "quarter sawn" flame maple, oak, etc, quite a few woods can have this "figure" is sawn properly. If it was possible to get this look by sanding, the el cheapo guitar companies would have been all over it years ago. The only "fake" tiger stripe ever seen on a guitar was the "Fotoflame" Fenders out of Japan in the 90's and that was airbrushed and very obvious to the trained eye.

I suppose you could try to get this effect with careful staining in stripes, but it would be obvious, and have no 3D effect as you move it around.

In the construction of guitars posted.. This is considered "Matchbook" or the sawing in half of a prospective piece and then side by side lining it up... I do not believe this was the method used by dagger makers.. Just my two cents..

[Larboard]

"Bookmatching"; sawing a plank of wood into two even thinner planks, and then laying them out so that the same grain radiates out from the center, is a completely separate thing from "quarter sawing" wood to get "tiger stripe" figure.

In the case of "Flametop" Les Pauls, the wood is first quarter sawn, sometimes bookmatched, but not always.

[gerrit]

Ger, I went and read the thread, and wow... you're saying that tiger striped SA and NSKK dagger grips are just tarted up plain pieces of wood burned with a flame to get this effect? Sounds completely ridiculous but as we all sadly know too well, "truth can be stranger than fiction"...

There's no reason to use a torch to get this effect, lots of woods have it built in. I can't even believe the factories that made high end daggers would resort to such shenanigans to have "figured" handles.

I've seen and handled dozen of high end rifle stocks, some M1 Garand stocks (Match rifles) have knock out tigerstriping and trust me, it's not "burned on"...

If this was the case with the German dagger handles, I'm starting to understand why we won the war

The Haenel I just recently posted about had some tiger stripe in the handle, and it was real, as part of the Oak grain. Very 3D, changed as you moved around, not all stripes visible at all times, such as it is with real actual tiger striped wood.

Quarter sawn Oak is famous for its beautiful and very striking figure, as is Maple.

Anyway, live and learn something new everyday, if you're lucky...

larboard if you would have done some proper research on SA grips you would have known that Tiger striped are "Flammed Grips" what you call: Sounds completely ridiculous, is nothing more then the truth.

The grip here shown is nothing more then a very overdone/overworked grinded grip.
Look at the grinding pattern and the wood pattern
Look at the way the scratched letters are softened by the sanding, when carved into wood they will have torn up edges.
Most of the edges are totally gone, but some are still there.
AS Always the devil is in the details!!!
As you state you dont have much experience with SA grips, i can assure you i have.
Look the the shoulder of the grip, totally difference texture/colour then the rest.
The darker parts are not changed by Flames, as you can clearly see at the neck of the grip, compare colour of that with the rest.

WHEN you have an Original Tiger grip the surface of the grip WILL NOT BE CHANGED, this grip is like a Rainbow in colours, grinding patterns and wood pattern, the softened Letters bij grinding/sanding is more then clearly to see.
I rest my case.

Ger

[dzyner]

I would caution any more debate about this until Luca is kind enough to post better photos showing all of the areas I requested. The original photos posted are simply too poor to make any judgment calls in my opinion. I have personally handled (owned at one time or another) over 150 different SA daggers, all with varying qualities, details, and flaws, and all purchased based originally on photos. If there is one thing I know from years of practice, it is the need for good photos before making any definite judgement calls. I'm not taking sides, just trying to state the obvious. In the end, the same conclusions may be draw, but at least we can all agree that the photos are not getting in the way of a decision.

Luca, since this is a thread that you initiated, as soon as you have free moment, kindly post the photos I requested in post #7 so we can put this to bed once and for all.

[gerrit]

I would caution any more debate about this until Luca is kind enough to post better photos showing all of the areas I requested. The original photos posted are simply too poor to make any judgment calls in my opinion. I have personally handled (owned at one time or another) over 150 different SA daggers, all with varying qualities, details, and flaws, and all purchased based originally on photos. If there is one thing I know from years of practice, it is the need for good photos before making any definite judgement calls. I'm not taking sides, just trying to state the obvious. In the end, the same conclusions may be draw, but at least we can all agree that the photos are not getting in the way of a decision.

Luca, since this is a thread that you initiated, as soon as you have free moment, kindly post the photos I requested in post #7 so we can put this to bed once and for all.

That would indeed be a great help, looking forward to any high Res. pictures, for me a detailed picture of the carved initials would do the trick...

Ger

[lucabrnroma]

I'll do better pics as soon as possible in order to complete this interesting discussion
Thanks guys

[Larboard]

Does anyone have the list of woods used for early nickel fittings SA daggers? I can't find it right now looking around, but I remember reading it somewhere once. I remember Maple and Pear being on the list, some Suhl daggers obviously used Oak. Anyone know where to find (or have in their archives) a comprehensive list?