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SA Dagger Ist Pattern Haco Berlin

Article about: Hi i have been offered this dagger it is first pattern haco of Berlin the cross guard is stamped with a b, i was hoping someone could help me out with this please if it is real or a parts da

  1. #1

    Default SA Dagger Ist Pattern Haco Berlin

    Hi i have been offered this dagger it is first pattern haco of Berlin the cross guard is stamped with a b, i was hoping someone could help me out with this please if it is real or a parts dagger or fantasy, as always any opinions are always appreciated

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  3. #2

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    So far so good.

    Pity about the scabbard ball being so squashed and broken.

    It would be nice to see it in the scabbard to just to check the fit.

    With the SA gruppe mark "B" being on the front of the crossguard this would indiate it has been taken apart at some point in time.

    Cheers, Ade.
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  4. #3

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    Hi James these are internally marked..with inked numbering seen here in this link:
    Haco Early SA Dienst Dolch

    Ade is correct as this dagger has been opened at one time which is noticeable also with the tang nut at the top having plier marks. Not sure what has happened there..but true Haco SA daggers will be numbered marked. Im seeing 2 different sets of scabbard fitting screws. The squashed ball..and condition of the blade IMO says you may be able to negotiate a better price or search for a better example. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  5. #4
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    Im not to keen on this one.
    It looks like the top guard isnt the typical Haco thin type, also the high ridge grip aint exactly what it suppose to be, it misses the Haco shape.
    Sometimes you got a gut sense that its just not good, i have it with this dagger.
    Here a picture of one how i like a Haco to be, and im sure Witty wont mind .....i am not saying they all should look like this, but it sure is a textbook one, i would love to have.
    Cheers Ger
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  6. #5

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    It all reverts back to the internal numbering..and Member Stingrays dagger on the link I provided above.

    your quote from that link :..... "What about this stingray dagger? it doesn't have the small upper crossguard if i look right.
    I have seen aa lot of Haco's lately, with the normal upperguard, there are 2 in the sell section of German daggers, which this dagger from Stingray is one.
    But this one from Stingray looks fine to me, it all fits to well, and patina of grip and crossguards match..
    Cheers,
    Ger

    My quote on page 4 of that link:.... Hi Gerrit I never discredited Stingrays dagger,,,but seeing these black numbers now brings new information to light,, and a possibility of a separate production run going from the thin crossguards ( Pink numbers ) to a later production run with normal crossguards ( black numbers ) This is just my opinion and not fact.

    So even though Haco collectors truly desire those thing guards...there is the other possibility of sub contracted guards from another source..and Haco numbering them inside. ( Stingray dagger photo below )
    I am a true fan of the thinner guards..which is the "face identity" of Haco.

    I am curious of James guards if they are numbered. Regards Larry
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  7. #6

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    dont lose your mind Ger..just making a point..... here a have beer
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  8. #7
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    Hahaha i rather prefer a scotch Larry
    I remember the Ivan dagger, and the reply's about the internal ink numbering, but the Ivan dagger has that typical grip lacquer we often see on Haco daggers.
    Somehow the dagger above lacks that Haco feeling, im not saying its wrong, but i prefer the thin guard textbook Haco.
    Im very curious if its numbered, its easy to open up, its been opened as stated the guard is put backwards

    Ger

  9. #8

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    3 dagger SA dagger type musts.... to have in a collection:

    Early Eickhorn ( large double oval )
    Any Suhl type dagger
    and a Haco dagger..
    Eickhorn sets the standard and the other 2..are crossguard to grip variants. All the rest of the producers will follow after that.

    If you take notice between..any Suhl crossguard..which has a low step..and a Haco crossguard..which has an almost standard crossguard step.....has the thinner guard...less nickel silver on the bottom of the guard.

    From one extreme "Eickhorn" to the other "Suhl" on corssguard steps..but yet all 3 have quality. I have said no collection is complete without a Suhl dagger....but Haco is in a class of its own. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #9

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    Hi guys thanks for the advice here are some internal pics of the dagger with the number markings
    i took a punt as the price was right for me,


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    another question i have about SA daggers in general is why/ what is the markings around the etchings? it seem to be quite common on the SA daggers and most have been the haco ones. i have circled them in red on the photo, is it due to a poorer quality of metal or just coincidence it appears in the same spot on about 6 daggers i have seen?


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  11. #10

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    Hi James..that is the greatest evil of every SA and SS collector encounters. Those spots are runner marks. This happens over the years..when oil has dried from whoever put it on the blade...which the high points of the runner touches the blade to keep it tight in the scabbard. If it sits there in the same position over time..a permanent mark will result ...being 4 points both sides of the blade. This tells me daggers with these marks like this has never had the blade out that frequent. So on a good note..it is nice to see it was unmessed with by so much in and out..the other thing is that it looks like hell on the blade.
    Simi chrome will clean up the blade alot..and soften the water mark appearance. You have a great Historical SA dagger..Haco being involved in some unsaavy practices and Berlin..and being involved so to say in the ReichStag fire. Thanks for sharing and showing the numbers Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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