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SA dagger M.7/8 very salty and questionable

Article about: What is it that highlights the blade as fake? The decimal point?

  1. #11

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    What is it that highlights the blade as fake? The decimal point?

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  3. #12

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    Original Edward Gembruch Solingen RZM 7/8 etched mark.
    (I guess original?)

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    Regards
    Vedran

  4. #13
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    Glenn the complete lack of the typical high RZM ridge and no trace of any crossgrain makes me think its a repro blade.
    I dont like the etched logo, and the way this blades has been aged, the wood of the grip should be looking like Sh*&$ having a blade like this.

    Ger

  5. #14

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    I agree...the grip seems too much in good condition considering the rest of the dagger...definitely a bad mix

  6. #15

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    Eduard Gembruch , Solingen Grafrath Marktplatz Nr 7
    RZM permit issued October 1 1934
    No RZM SA daggers...and is considered risky
    The logo RZM 7/8 logo was used on SS daggers...which also should be considered cautionary.

    The makers 120/34 and 121/34 are also listed to be circumspect...but these has been proven to be a reliable producers.

    Closeups of the RZM etch would be beneficial....but Gerrit brings up a good point..of the lack of a high center ridge on the blade. All left over early blade stock was used up during the mid period...unless this is on that slipped through the cracks.

    The decimal point is a mystery...and IMO I consider it useless.

    In a December 31 1935 RZM Annual report..says nothing of the decimal point..but yet points out that of 116 companies that were issued RZM permits...which 56 of those companies did not receive orders while holding and paying the yearly fee of 100 marks just to have it.

    Reading the permit code RZM M7/8
    RZM Reicszeugmeisterei
    M - sub department - Metal
    7 - Group representing Dagger or knife
    8 - Permit number
    and year of manufacture if any

    My question would it be up to the discretion of the producer..to put a decimal point..or is it a period that ends a abbreviation or statement. Who would of decided this and would this be allowed under the strict rules of the RZM.

    Not just this particular number but about 9 other RZM numbers have this decimal point. So?..it boils down to looking at the tang for any markings..or the billet clamp marks on the side of the tang.....mostly..a closeup of the RZM number etch..should decide. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  7. #16

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    I'm still collecting information on the RZM - with IMO the complete story waiting to be told. But if I was to summarize what it actually did (IMO) it would not really be comparable to the Heereswaffenamt. But instead more like a tax (stamp) revenue organization in place to license the production of items for the NSDAP. Which I know is an over-generalization. But would help I think explain some of the legitimate variables with the items that were made under its theoretical "umbrella". Best Regards, Fred

  8. #17

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    Personally, I've always wondered if the decimal points did not indicate that the blade it was on was not subcontracted out either for the blade itself or for the etchings, but who knows. The idea that all the dagger makers made every bit and screw that was on one of their marked daggers is impractical.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  9. #18

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    Very Impractical William as there are over 200 listed sub contractors ....who only produced each certain part and shipped them to various producers. Much credence is given to the SS Producer Bertram Reihn... all of which are all parts from other contractors assembled at their factory....but yet the end result a well crafted dagger. Purchase invoices of each said sub contracted part are on file in the City of Solingen..in present day. Friedrich Herder is another producer..whose files went undamged by the bombing of the city towards the end of the war.

    Reading through these invoices opens the eyes and mind ...the size in scope of the whole dagger operation...and these invoices were not just between Dagger and sub contractor..but sub contractor to sub contractor...all of which were in competition with each other to supply and please their higher accounts. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #19

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    What made me wonder this, is that the coin mints back in that era had a habit of putting a small dot on a coin if they had something unusual about it, such as being minted the next year, rather than the date on the coin indicated. I was just musing to myself, that if, for some reason, say, the dagger manufacturer's etching equipment was temporarily down and an urgent shipment was needed, it's conceivable that they might have had another firm do the etching and place a dot near the makers mark to indicate this had been done. But, who knows?....I really can't think of any credible reason that the decimal points should be there unless it Meant something. Then again, maybe they just thought it Looked nicer?
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  11. #20

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    I've thought about it also, but in a different context. The Germans did use abbreviations such as "S." for seitengewehr, a bayonet. Or "Kar." for Karabiner which was a short rifle (Kar. 98k). And "G." for a Gewehr such as the G. 33/40 (a shorter barreled carbine) So why not something as simple as "M." for Metall (as a manufacturer) - but as a minority that did so versus the majority who may have just assumed that everyone knew what was obvious? Best Regards, Fred

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