SA dagger - Rohm inscription

[Matthew72]

Hello,

my name is Matthew Pritchard and I am a novelist. I am currently working on a second book set in Nazi Germany; part of the story revolves around an SA dagger and the Rohm inscription that has not been removed from it.

Can I check with forum users that my information and understanding of the dagger is correct.

My character joined the SA in 1927 and received a Holbein-style dagger made by Eickhorn, with a handle in the traditional style.

My questions are these:

1. On which side of the dagger would the words "In herzlicher Kamaradeschaft Ernst Röhm" have been inscribed?

2. Would the other side still have had the "Alles Fur Deutschland" inscription?

3. Where would the numbers identifying to whom the dagger belonged have been inscribed? (My understanding is that fewer than 125,000 were issued with the Rohm signature.)

If anyone has any photos to help me picture how the dagger and the writing would appear, I would be very appreciative.

Thank you in advance for any help you can give me.

All the best,

Matthew Pritchard

[gerrit]

Hello Matthew,

welcome to the forum.
i think this post will answer all your questions:

June 30 1934 - Rohm inscription pattern

Regards
Ger

[gerrit]

Matthew regarding point 3.

It was not common to stamp the SA mans number on the crossguard, and only a limited amount of daggers do bear these numbers on the crossguard.
therefore in most cases a Rohm dagger can not be traced back to its former owner.

Regards
Ger

[Matthew72]

Hello Ger, many thanks for your prompt and helpful response.

As regards this part:

It was not common to stamp the SA mans number on the crossguard, and only a limited amount of daggers do bear these numbers on the crossguard.
therefore in most cases a Rohm dagger can not be traced back to its former owner.

A crucial plot point hinges on the dagger's owner being identifiable. Would it be a massive stretch to have had the character serve with Rohm in WWI and having his ID number inscribed as a special honour?

Many thanks.

[Larry C]

Between WW 1 and the entry of men in to the SA ..would be under a new classification of rank and hierarchy.
The answer to your question is no !

No carry over service numbers in to the Third Reich. Hitler was corporal during that period..then why would his NSDAP number be the #7 ?
Does this make sense ?

A lowly corporal with a high in the thousands service number ...and then have a #7 ?
Gerrit explained it well ..as the SA were into the millions in men..most of if not all of any service lists have been lost or destroyed in the war.

If the dagger was found to be in the possession of the existing family ..then I would say yes ...it shows provenance that ...this person owned that dagger with a number.

Good luck on your Novel and and encouraging read would be this book by an esteemed author Jill Halcomb



Regards Larry

[MAP]

As another way of looking at the question.....(and I will ALWAYS defer to Ger/Larry on facts about daggers...)


"A crucial plot point hinges on the dagger's owner being identifiable. Would it be a massive stretch to have had the character serve with Rohm in WWI and having his ID number inscribed as a special honour?"

If I separate your query into two separate parts (with a tie-in in the middle) as I view them as separate plot points

1) Having the Character serve with Rohm in WW1 -> Hypothetical but Yes, very possible. I'm sure Rohm served with dozens/hundreds of people (plus it is a fictional novel of course)

Tie-in: This man THEN joins the SA

2) This SA man having his service number engraved on the SA Rohm Dagger -> The key point here is "what" number. He would not have had any WW1 number, but he "could" have had his SA number engraved on the dagger. (but very rare as Ger points out)

So my answer is YES, it would not be a massive stretch. Both 1 and 2 are possible and are connected by a Name (missing SA records be damned tying the name of the man to his SA service number A think readers would give you a little literary license here ).

Regards,

M

[gerrit]

On some very very rare occasion one can be found numbered & named, i remembered a beautiful Haco that Rafael posted here some time ago..

Regards
Ger

[Matthew72]

Hi, thanks for this answer. I obviously didn't express my query very clearly.

Just to clarify, this is the sequence of events I intend to happen.

1. Character serves in Rohm's brigade during WW1.
2. WW1 ends.
3. In 1927, the character joins the SA.
4. In 1930, when Rohm returns from Bolivia, said character writes to him, reminding him of their WWI connection and generally brownnosing.
5. As a result, he is issued a special dagger, with the Rohm inscription AND his SA number inscribed on the cross guard.

Is this sequence of events a massive stretch of the imagination?

Question: would this dagger have been the short-bladed Holbein dagger or the long-bladed Feldherrnhalle dagger?

Many thanks in advance for any help,

Cheers,

Matthew Pritchard

[Larry C]

This Rohm soldier in arms would have had the Standard SA em ( Enlisted Man ) size with Rohm dedication ...as would be in your story.

In this time period there is no Holbein dagger...this would be modeled after such an example. In this time period until present as we speak it is an SA dagger. ( Just a note : No Holbein daggers were distributed or produced during this time period.

The Feldhernhalle dagger was for selected SA High leaders.

[MAP]

To your first question. This is a feasible sequence of events.

As far as the second question. I will let the dagger guys answer.

Edit: Larry and my posts crossed