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SA Gruppe marks known to Dagger Producers and Manufacturers

Article about: Below is a compilation of Dagger producers and their Gruppe mark designation to help identify the districts that the “Early” SA dagger was distributed to. To date, this is an updated list of

  1. #1

    Default SA Gruppe marks known to Dagger Producers and Manufacturers

    Below is a compilation of Dagger producers and their Gruppe mark designation to help identify the districts that the “Early” SA dagger was distributed to. To date, this is an updated list of the most recent sightings of the SA Gruppe mark and dagger producers.
    It was not the responsibility of the dagger producer to apply these stampings on the back of the lower crossguard,,but only to produce and deliver to the SA district. Upon arrival the Lower crossguards were stamped with the appropriate lettering. The gruppe mark “Ho” for Hochland is a separate example of stampings that are only seen off center ,..and near the accent grooves of the lower crossguard. This SA district was the only district that performed this “Off center’ stamping. It is also normal to see a “double hit’ of lettering which is caused by the hammer resting upon the stamping die, to find its mark first and with the second hit the lettering is applied. Many Examples will be seen with this type of process
    It is this writers opinion that …“In rare occurrences”,, we do see an Early SA dagger with no Gruppe mark stamping,, on early nickel silver crossguards,,..which is possible,, as an overage that was sent to that district. The Authenticity should not be dismissed due to the lack of the Gruppe mark.
    After 1935 the Gruppe mark vanished and the RZM took control of all quality and aesthetic appeal. As the years progressed and shortages of parts were visible,,… occasionally we see an early Gruppe marked Crossguard on a Mid to late period dagger. To my knowledge there is a possibility that this was period done to make production quota and also to be taken into consideration as a post war put together by a returning Soldier,,or even more recent. A “True period” collectable example will exhibit the correct SA Gruppe Mark.
    The early SA dagger in my opinion shows a better craftsmanship and materials used. Obvious differences can be seen between Early and Late period. A keen eye will see the smaller details in craftsmanship and materials during the Mid Period transition as a combination of early and new materials were used together.

    As Time passes SA daggers continue to surface from families that had grandparents that served in WWII….to which eventually there is no interest to keep them or out of Political correctness. If there is a SA gruppe mark that is not on this list and is on a dagger that you own,,please post a photo of it on this thread so a discussion may ensue and I will add the Gruppe mark to the list. Please do not post just the Gruppe mark and the maker ( without the photo ),, as this will not be a helpful resource and lead to the post being deleted .

    SA Gruppe “Oe” – Osterreich,,. appears on the Gau map as, this SA gruppe was banned in the early 30s for illegal activities while in Austria. This group was disbanded and regrouped under the SA Gruppe NW ( Nordwest Hilfeswerk) ,,,A veiled disguise to hide SA men until a later date of the Anschluί of 1938. There are no known "Nw" gruppe markings to exist on SA daggers.

    SA Gruppe “W” – Feldhernhalle does appear in the same SA district as “Ho”- Hochland as Munich is within this district which includes the Feldhernhalle memorial. An ever so small amount of SA daggers with this Gruppe mark is rarely found.

    Special note as you can see the various Gruppe marks on the "Piechart",, from the widest distribution to the minute` bare lines of the gruppe marks “Oe” and “W”. This should shed some light on what Gruppe mark was common and what was not common.

    SA Gruppes.. “ A” Alpenland,,,”Do” Donau..”Kp” Kurpfalz..”Sm”..Sudmark..and “Su”..Sudetenland,, did not yet exist until after 1938,,are listed on the Gau Map,, but no mid to late period stampings are seen as ,,stated above that,, The SA Gruppe mark has stopped being applied when the RZM took full control.

    A complete list of SA Gruppe marks can be seen on this link created by our Forum Administrator, Adrian Stevenson
    SA Dienstdolch group markings

    Also included below is “Gruppe Mark Pie chart” on rarity supplied by “Ian Dale” of his UK website.. Simply Daggers …Ian has also graciously bestowed upon this forum the use of this information.

    Included with this list of Makers,,is a link by WRF Member “Degens” of his Wardaggers website, to which he has bestowed the privilege of the use of his photographic List of Early SA Logos.
    Early SA dagger logo Producers


    SA Gruppe marks
    Aesculap, Tuttlingen ………………………. Sw; Wm
    AMSO ( Albert Mebus )……………………Ho; Nm; Wm
    Asso (Schuttelhoffer)……………………… Ns; Om; S
    Axt und Hauerfabrik ………………………. Nrh; Wf
    Backhaus, F W ………………………………….BO; He; Ns
    Bahrl, Julius………………………………….…..Wf
    Balke & Sohne, Rich ………………….……..Wf
    Barthelmess, Fritz ………………………….. Fr
    Becker, Eduard ………………………………..He; Sw………Kolumbuswerk
    Becker, Gebr ………………….……………..…He; Ns; Om; Wf
    Bell, Gebr …………………………………..…….BO; He
    Bender, Carl ……………………………….…….Ha
    Berns, Gebr ……………………………….…….Ho; Wm
    Berns, Hugo ………………………………….….P; Sa; Wf
    Bickel, August …………….…………………..BO; Fr; Mi; S
    Bismark……………………………………………Ns; Wm; S
    Bocker, Karl ………………………………......Wf
    Bodenstein, Julius…………………………..Fr
    Bohme, Gebr …………………………………..Th
    Bonsmann, E …………………………………..P; Om
    Bontgen & Sabin …………………………….No; Nrh; Wf
    Born, Gebr ……………………………………….Wf;
    Brosy F. Von ……………………………………Ho; Wm
    Bruckman, Ernst ……………………………..Ho; Wm
    Buchel, Rudolf ………………………………..He
    Bulldog ( Gebr Halbach ) ………………….Ha; Nrh
    Busch, Ernst…………………………………….He
    Christians, Gebr ……………………………..Nrh
    Chromolit ……………………………………….Nm; S
    Cleff, Ewald…………………………………….Nrh; Wm
    Clemen & Jung………………………………..Ha; Ho; Nrh
    Curdts Natchf …………………………………Ho; Nrh
    Dick, F …………………………………………….He; Sw; Wm
    Dirlam, Ernst…………………………………..Wf
    Dirlam & Sohn, J……………………………..Nrh
    Dittert, JE Sa;…………………………………..Sa
    Dorschel, Albert ……………………………..Nrh; Wm
    Drees & Sohn, Rich …………………………S
    Ebel, Paul ……………………………………….Om; Wf
    Eickelnberg & Mack
    Eickhorn, Carl …………………………….....BO; Fr; Ha; He; No; Nrh; Ns; Om; S; Wf; Wm
    Eppenstein & Sohne, Carl ………………Ho; Nm; Wm
    EP&S…..( See Pack and Sohn E. )
    Felix, Gustav ………………………………….Nm; Wm
    Geigis, Friedrich……………………………..Ns
    Gembruch, Ed……………………………….B; Ho
    Gerling Ernst
    Gierling, Emil ………………………………….P; Wf; Wm
    Giersch, Rob.………………………………….Wm
    Geisen & Forsthoff …………………………He; Ns; Wf
    Grafrath, Gebr………………………………. He; Nm; Wm
    Grah, Carl……………………………………….Nm; Om; Wf
    Grah, Ernst……………………………………..Nm; Wm
    Grah, Reinhold ……………………………….Wf; Om
    Groten, Ludwig ………………………………Ns; Wf
    Haas, Carl………………………………………..Ha
    Haastert & Bull …………………………….. B; He; Sa
    HACO, Berlin ……..…………………………..B
    Haenel, C.G. Suhl …………………………..Mi; Ns; Sa; Th
    Haering, Eugen ………………………………Wf
    Hahn, Hermann …………………………….Om
    Haker, Gustav………………………………..B; Ha
    Halbach Gebr..”Bulldog”……………..….Ha; Nrh
    Halbach, Wilhelm…………………………..He; P
    Hammesfahr & Cie ………………………..He; No; P; Wm
    Hartkopf & Co………………………………..Nm; Om; P
    Hartkopf, Rich………………………………..Nm
    Heidelberg, Carl …………………………….Ns; Wf; S
    Helbig, F&A……………………………………Mi
    Heller, Gebr, “Schmalkalden” ……….Bo; Fr; He; Mi; Sa; Sw; Th
    Heller, Gebr, “Marienthal”…………….Th
    Henkels, J.A. …………………………………BO; Nrh; Om; OST; Wf; Wm
    Henckels, Paul……………………………….P; Wf
    Henckel & Muller…………………………..Ns; Wf
    Herbeck & Meyer ………………………….Nrh; No; Wm
    Herbertz & Meurer ……………………….B; He
    Herder & Engels…………………………..B; Nrh
    Herder, F ……………………………………..Nrh; Om; S; Sw; Wf; Wm
    Herder, H …………………………………….He; Nrh Herder, Rich. Abr
    Herder, Robert …………………………….He; Nrh; Wm
    Herder & Sohn ……………………………..P; Wf
    Holler, F.W …………………………………..He; Wm
    Hoppe, Curt ………………………………….Ha
    Hoppe Sohne, Gottfried……………….B; He; Nm; Sa
    Hoppe, Wilhelm ……………………………Ns; Wf
    Horster, E&F ………………………………...B; Ha; Nrh; Om
    Jacobs, C. Rud……………………………….No; P
    Jacobs & Co ………………………………….He
    Johanniswerk “Bayreuth”…………….Fr
    Justinuswerk ………………………………..BO; He
    Jordan, F.W ………………………………....He
    Kaiser, Emil …………………………………..Om
    Kaldenbach, Karl Robert ……………….P
    Kaufmann & Sohne ……………………….No; Nrh; Wm
    Kayser, C.F. …………………………………..No; Om
    Kemper, Ernst ……………………………….He; No; Nrh
    Kirschbaum, F.A…………………………….Nrh
    Klittermann & Moog………………………Nrh
    Kloos, Carl………………………………………Ns
    Knecht, Aug…………………………………..Nm; No
    Knecht & Co, E. ……………………………..Wm
    Kober & Co, Wm ……………………………He; Sa; Th
    Kohl, Paul ……………………………………….Fr; Nrh
    Kohlen Fr. v.d………………………………..No; Om; S
    Koller, Gustav .L. ……………………………P
    Koller, Hugo ………………………………....B; He; Nrh
    Konejung, Herm ……………………………He; Nrh
    Krebs, Carl /Julius……………………………B; Ha; He: Sw
    Krebs, Pet/ Dan ………………………………Ha; Nrh
    Krieger, Wilhelm …………………………..P;.............W ........ Feldhernhalle
    Krom ,Heinrich ………………………………Ho;
    Krumm, Gebr ………………………………..Nm; Om
    Krusius, Gebr ………………………………. B; Nrh; Wm
    Kuhrt, Karl ,Fr. ……………………………….Fr; Ha; He
    Kullenberg, Aug…………………………….Nrh
    Lauterjung, H&F ……………………………Ho; Nrh; Wm
    Leupold, Johann ……………………………F; Oe
    Leuco …………………………………………….BO; Fr
    Linder, Carl “Merscheid”……………….Ns; Wm
    Linder, Carl & Robert …………………….Ha; Ns
    Linder, Herm. Sohn………………………..Nm; Om; S
    Linder & Sohn, Hugo C.W “Linor”…..Nrh; Ns; Wm
    Linder, Hugo “Deltawerk” …….……….Nrh
    Linder, Otto …………………………………..Wm
    Louper …………………………………………..S
    Luneschloss, P.D. …………………………..S
    Lungstrass, Peter…………………………..Ha; Ns
    Luttges & Co…………………………………..Ho
    Lutters & Co, C. ……………………………..Ha; No
    Malsch, Aug …………………………………..Nm; Th
    Malsch, David ………………………………..Fr; He
    Malsch, Karl “Gust & Sohn”
    Malsch & Ambrom …………………………Mi; Sa; Th
    Malsch - Spitzer, Karl ……………………..Mi
    Mandewirth Ernst
    May & vom Hau …………………………….Ho; Nm; Sw
    Meis, Carl August ……………………………Nrh
    Melcher, Artur………………………………..Wf
    Melzer & Feller …………………………….…Fr; He
    Merten, August ……………………………..Ho; Ns; S; Wm
    Muller, Gottfried …………………………….Fr
    Munch, Joseph ……………………………….BO; Fr; He
    Neeff, C. Gustav………………………………P
    Neidhardt & Schmidt……………………….BO; Fr; He
    Neptun …………………………………………...No
    Neuhaus, Ferd ……………………………... He; Nhr; No; Wm
    Ohliger, Ed F………………………………….He; Ho; Nm; Nrh; Wm
    Ohliger, Julius………………………………..Nrh; No
    Pack & Sohne, E. ………………………..…..B; Fr; Nrh; Nm; No; Ns; P; S; Th; Wf; W…..Feldhernhalle
    Peres, Daniel …………………………………..Nrh; No
    Perfectum…………………………….…………No
    Pfeilringwerk ………………………………….No; Ns; Om; S
    Plucker Jr, Friedr. ……………………….……Nrh: No; Wm
    Puma …………………………………………..….He; No; Nrh; Wm
    Pumeto Solingen
    Rader, Hugo ………………………………….…Nrh; No; Wf
    Rasspe, Ernst Hugo………………………….Mi; P; Wf
    Rau & Koch ………………………………….….P; Sw
    Reich, Ehrhardt .................................Mi;
    Remscheid, Cuno “Remeve”…………..Nrh; No; Wf; Wm
    Reuleaux ,Josef……………………………....Wf
    Ritter, Kuno ………………………………….….Nrh; S; Wf
    Romer, Ernst…………………………………….Ns; Wf
    Romuso…………………………………………….Ho; Wm
    Rother August................................... No
    Rottgen, Ernst “Boat logo”…………….…Nm
    Sauer & Sohn, JP ………………………………Bo; Fr; Mi; Sa; Wf
    Schaaff, CD “ Perfectum”…………….……No
    Scheidt, Eugen ………………………………...Nm; P
    Schlieper, Carl……………………………………P
    Schlimbach, Jos ………………………….......No; Om
    Schmidt, Carl……………………………………..BO; Ns; S; W; Wf……..Feldhernhalle W
    Schmidt & Sohne, J A………………………..Ns; Wf
    Schmidt, Rudolf …………………………………Ns
    Schmitz, Friedr. Aug …………………………Om; Wf
    Schnittert, Abr …………………………….....Nm; P; Wf; Wm
    Schrick, Sohn, E………………………………..Ho; P
    Seilheimer, Paul ……………………………...Om; S; Wf
    Servatius, Hugo …………………………..…..P; Wf
    Simon, Otto ..”Steinbach”……………………..Bo; Fr ; He
    SMF………………………………………………….Ho;Ns; P; Sw; Wf
    Spaltender …………………………………….Ho; Th
    Spitzer, C. Gustav …………………………...No; Ns; W; Wf’ Wm……….Feldhernhalle W
    Steinhoff, Franz ………………………………Ns; Wf
    Stover, Otto…………………………………….Nrh; P
    Sudd Messerfrabrik …………………..……Fr
    Tiger ………………………………………………..He; Nrh; Ns; S
    Tillmann Sohne, Carl ……………………….Ns; P; S
    Torley, Gebruder …………………………….Ns; Om
    Undine ……………………………………………Ho; Wm
    Vitting, Eduard ………………………………..P; Wf
    Volker, Adolf …………………………….…...Mi; No; Sa
    Voos, Emil ……………………………………….Nm; P; S
    Voss, Gustav …………………………………..Nm; P
    Waffenhammer ……………………….…….BO
    WKC ………………………………………………..Nm; P; S
    Wagner & Lange …………………………... He; Nm; P;
    Wagner, Wilhelm …………………………...Nrh; P
    Weltersbach, Wilh. …………………………He; Ho; No; Wm
    Werth A..........................................Nm
    Wester & Butz ………………………………..No; Om
    Weyersberg, Gottfried …………….…….Nm; Om; Wm
    Weyerberg, Gustav Nachf ……………….Ns; Wf
    Weyersberg, Max …………………………...No; P
    Weyersberg & Co, Paul…………………….No; Om; Th; S
    Weyersberg, Reinh ……………….…………Ho; No; Wm
    Wielputz, Thomas...............................Nm
    Wingen, Jr, Anton …………………………...He; Nrh; No; Ns; Wm
    Wirth, Gustav ………………………………....Ho; Nm; P
    Witte, Ernst Erich “Kroneck”……………P
    Wolf, Joseph ……………………………………Ho; Wf
    Wolfertz, Is………………………………………P; Wf
    Wustof, Carl …………………………………...Nm; S
    Wusthof, Ed …………………………………...He; Nrh; Oe; OST; Th; Wf; W……Feldhernhalle
    Wusthof, Ed.........( Small logo )...........He; Nrh; Th; Wf;
    Zander, Carl ……………………………….……Ns; Wf
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Larry C; 05-24-2016 at 04:43 AM.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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  3. #2

    Default Re: SA Gruppe marks known to Dagger Producers and Manufacturers

    Nice work Larry!
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  4. #3

    Default Re: SA Gruppe marks known to Dagger Producers and Manufacturers

    Thankyou Ade,, and thank you Jon " Degens" for the updated Gau/ SA District map photo. Regards Larry
    Last edited by Larry C; 01-05-2013 at 11:53 PM.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  5. #4

    Default Re: SA Gruppe marks known to Dagger Producers and Manufacturers

    Great info Larry thanks.

    Eric
    [h=3]e plu·ri·bus u·num[/h]

  6. #5
    esu
    esu is offline
    ?

    Default Re: SA Gruppe marks known to Dagger Producers and Manufacturers

    Very nice, very helpful and instructional. Learned something about my SA dagger today.

  7. #6
    ?

    Default Re: SA Gruppe marks known to Dagger Producers and Manufacturers

    Larry please add this Aug.Merten with Ns Gau mark.
    Cheers Ger
    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #7
    ?

    Default Re: SA Gruppe marks known to Dagger Producers and Manufacturers

    Larry please add this maker and gau mark.
    A.Werth gau Nm
    Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #8

    Default Re: SA Gruppe marks known to Dagger Producers and Manufacturers

    This is an ultra rare #10 scale maker,,which there is no known SA gruppe documentation for this maker, until now. This is a great find! Thanks Gerrit for sharing this. I have added it to the list. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #9

    Default Re: SA Gruppe marks known to Dagger Producers and Manufacturers

    Hello Larry,
    You can add Wf to the J.P. Sauer&Sohn.
    Ralph.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  11. #10

    Default Re: SA Gruppe marks known to Dagger Producers and Manufacturers

    Hello xxG..Thanks for posting the August Malsch..although that Gruppe mark is already listed...if you may ( please start a new thread ) and post some photos of your SA dagger. These early type daggers are greatly collectible and would be beneficial as reference material here on this forum. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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