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SA High Leader Dagger by Eickhorn

Article about: Well Gents......Again I can not describe what photos would describe best. After being graced with the permission to post such great photos and a supreme example of an SA High Leaders dagger.

  1. #21

    Default Re: SA High Leader Dagger by Eickhorn

    Quote by Wagriff View Post

    "The Seller of this dagger is Paul Hogle of Lakesidetrader and is a considerable expert in edged weapons-not to mention a site Sponsor here as well. I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that I have yet to hear anything derogatory at all about Paul or his items for sale, nor have I heard question of his knowledge and expertise. This is not one of the usual thieves who post a Chinese made dagger and claim it was "just found yesterday in the attic of an abandoned old house in Poland". If it Had been-yes, you can be certain that it would have been quickly pointed at and questioned more closely. In rare instances, it does, indeed,make a great deal of difference who has it."

    First off, at no time have I questioned the integrity of Paul Hogle or his company Lakesidetrader. Indeed, I have only ever had good experiences when dealing with him and am not being "derogatory" towards him or suggesting he is "one of the usual thieves" as has been suggested above.

    For the record, I have always received excellent service from him and his company, including when I bought a single item from him in July 2011 at a cost of over $5500, and which I was, and continue to be, delighted with, so i'd like to make it crystal clear there is no problem there from my perspective.

    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    "Opinions are, of course, for each person to formulate on their own. Uncalled for personal attacks are another matter altogether and shows the lack of dignity on the part of the accuser and should have no place here on this Forum. We come here to both learn from and to help others in our hobby. Whether a person personally likes or dislikes another here, let's keep it clean, guys."
    Secondly, no "personal attacks" were made by me regarding Paul Hogle or Lakesidetrader, and if that is the suggestion then it's completely wrong. If you are reffering to me slighting your character William, I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there are several members here who are at the forefront when it comes to questioning the veracity of a dagger based on the grip to crossguard fit, and one only has to do a forum search by typing in " dagger, poor fitting grip" to see that you are often seen to be one of these members as you specifically question/disregard a piece by this SINGLE criteria alone in 9 posts on 9 separate daggers in the first 4 pages of 'Search' results. I therefore think my remark "Talk of the devil " was not unfair, and was said in a joking manner that was genuinely not meant to be taken the way you appear to have chosen to do so. I apologise to you unreservedly now for the "lack of dignity" that you think I have shown toward you if this is the case, it was not meant that way at all.

    What I was pertaining to specifically was my suprise that no one had yet mentioned the poor fit of the grip considering how it is a lot worse than others that have been questioned on here before, and why was this? That was not meant to imply that Paul or Lakesidetrader were being dishonest or otherwise, it was questioning the fact that the favourite chestnut of some of the afficiondo's here had not been asked, and was this because of the undoubted rarity and 'bling' had blinded some in a similar way as did "The Emperor's New Clothes" in the old Danish folktale? Then you rocked up with the single word comment "Wow...!" and that made me laugh out loud and say what I said. No "personal attack" there old boy, just a little jokey aside that got took the wrong way, i'll avoid doing it again in future where you're concerned.

    Afterall that I will say that it's my opinion that considering the fact that the dagger has been 'titivated' to improve it's chances of sale at a greater price than it may have been if in an as found, original condition, the integrity of the dagger and it's history has been forever compromised for me, and for that reason, even if I had the money to spend on such rare item, it wouldn't be on this one.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

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  3. #22

    Default Re: SA High Leader Dagger by Eickhorn

    Quote by Larry C View Post
    Gentlemen..although I have not had my coffee yet..I have read an eyeful that would cause Juan Valdez the coffee grower to lose money today. Let me first stop an future attempts of any "Character assassination " as the reason this dagger was posted was not to attack the integrity of the seller. In my opening post..the description of this dagger had already been stipulated that the dagger is not 100% perfect and some rework had been done. If anyone feels my comment is off base regarding character assassination,,and no one was implying it..thats fine,,,but as a reminder....not to go in that direction.

    As far as the dagger is concerned...these run far more higher than what is being offered..this will not become the ring to engage about pricing. No lies were being told,,, and the dagger is being offered as such.
    If at best it would be encouraging to see if one of the our many members who are just reading this now or about to read this thread would be able to supply some photos of another High leader example.
    Another such example to be seen if anyone has Tom Johnsons photo reference "German Daggers of World War II...pg 290 shows another example of the same dagger...with slight grip shrinkage also. This book I currently speak of is presently being offered for sale in our classifieds section. It would make a great addition to anyones library especially when it brings to question high end examples.

    I am sure what this dagger looked like before it was rescued ...probably does not compare to what it is now.....which Gerrit is correct...but it is still a High leader dagger..no matter how it is shaped. This dagger is what it is and has been described as such..and nothing is hidden...or I would of not received permission to "do", post this dagger...if there was any reservations about the authenticity of it.
    This dagger in my opinion is still a worth while study and the comments made so far are towards the dagger...which is fine. For everyone of our members if need be I will do my best to protect everyones integrity if warranted. I made that mistake a few times in the beginning of my tenure and have learned from it,,but I wont let it happen again. This thread is open to other photographic examples and I invite all comments and photos as long as it remains within the guidelines of the topic and not any person who owns or is selling it.
    William points out the truth as this dagger is not coming from a "Hack House" from another country....nor is the person who is selling it. Regards Larry

    Correction on Johnsons Reference book...already sold and a good investment
    As requested, some links that pertain to both SA and SS honour daggers by Eickhorn.

    SA Honor Dagger

    SA Honor Dagger





    All good stuff.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  4. #23
    ?

    Default Re: SA High Leader Dagger by Eickhorn

    It is not my intension and will never be to diss anyone.
    Its simply my opinion about this dagger.
    As i stated:
    IMO.......

    i know that Paul is a respectable person, i dont doubt him, i question this dagger.
    To point out that he is also a sponsor here, is what i think, a statement that would not have to carry any weight.....

    I make observations and will not be bothered to look who posts the dagger, otherwise our opinions are worthless......

    A honour dagger is the highest standard in building daggers, and we all know what great examples exist.
    The grip of those dagger were made from the finest Woods, carefully choosen and certainly not pieces that weren't well dried or young, that would endanger the quality.

    each grip is fitted to its crossguards, eickhorn is a great company that even benchmarked his daggers, so that the grips werent placed on the wrong crossguard.

    Now i dont have any problem with schrinking of wood, but you have to keep in mind that schrinking will not make the shoulders of the grip bigger but smaller.
    That means looking at a gap, the outher side of the grip cant be higher then the crossguard.
    So draw an imaginary line between the tip of the shoulder to the crossguard, they most level, otherwise the grip has been replaced.

    That little easy tricks works on every SA or SS dagger, so why not on this one?
    Just look for yourself.

    I say it agian:
    IMO i'm not convinst that this grip belongs to this dagger.

    Ger
    Last edited by gerrit; 06-24-2013 at 10:01 PM.

  5. #24

    Default Re: SA High Leader Dagger by Eickhorn

    I feel everyone has missed the point of the thread and partial blame lays on me for not being specific enough. Its ashame as my original intention was to focus on what is rarely seen in closeups with the tang and the crossguards. I know I did not open the thread with a souring "Real or Fake" question.

    I can think of no other instances to where close ups have been seen of guards ,,blade and tang itself. Still to this day..and even from some of the more well healed collectors are fooled by the crossguards of the High leader dagger. The grip is another issue...what I would of like to have seen become a study,,is turning into a pissing match.
    ( All fittings are silver including the grip eagle )
    It becomes so frustrating sometimes when you try to help and teach but only some can criticize..or vent at hard feelings that tend to follow them and just happen to land in an area of study.
    This study is not about Paul nor is it about his integrity.......If I felt this dagger was not worthy of posting..I would of not wasted my time editing and cropping each photo..for study purposes...anyone else would of taken the easy way out and say...."here check this link out..Real or Fake". What is mainly seen in reference books is now brought to here as not everyone has the afforded want of expensive books. Some of the reference material on the subject can run a few hundred dollars..which is really not viable to those who have a question about a certain item ,,without depleting their wallet to get an answer.
    For the Seasoned collectors your opinions on ( The dagger only ) are well warranted and acceptable as what Gerrit has said what would be a forum if it is without opinions. Granted!!
    This thread will remain open as I am still hopeful for period photos and recent high quality photos for comparison. Thank you Ned for the Videos. I would like to continue this thread..minus any hard feelings or "he said..you said" comments.
    Last edited by Larry C; 06-25-2013 at 12:44 PM.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  6. #25

    Default

    An interesting thread. I have owned several SA and SS honour daggers over the years of collecting and have to say that the grip/crossguard fit is not always up to the standard of early SA/SS service daggers. As has been referred to earlier in the thread, the honour crossguards tolerance is not always as precise as the standard guards. Something else to look for on these early honour dagger grips is that the eagle insignia inlays are silver, not nickel as on the early service daggers.
    Here are pictures of one of mine, you will see the grip/guard fit is not "perfect". The dagger is untouched as found. I fitted out the pictured period knife box to house it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    A final point; often, but not always, the inner grip surface will have a pencilled in number to match the numbers stamped within the crossguards.

  7. #26

    Default

    Bravo Gast..a piece of candy very lovely. Agreed on the penciling beneath the grip...depending upon the coarseness of the wood..sometimes hard to see after 80 some years. Nice to see some great detail left on the hand enhancing of the acorns upper guard area.

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    Looks to be in decent condition. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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