SA M7/85 and SS M7/36 - should i "leap of faith"?

[mynsatrop]

Hello everybody,
my name is Josip (Croatia - Europe) and I registered here for my father and his "2 dagger dilemma"!
His old fishing friend had a granpa (he passed away recently) living in germany, ww2 guy, attic full of old weapons - mostly guns and ammo, clothes and some daggers. Granpa gave all his guns and ammo and clothes (allegedly 30 thousand dollars estimated) to a museum but gifted his grandson 2 daggers. I dont live near by parents, but my father was very excited on the phone as he decribed the daggers and said info to me. My father is a gun freak memorabilia so he has no clue of daggers except some newer bayonets and kukris I bought him.
He said the following:
SS RZM M7/36 - black scabbard, black handle probably bakelite, eagle on the handle from aluminum, SS mark in the black circle thingie, visible HAND engraving in gothic - "meine ehre heißt treue"
SA RZM M7/85 - brown scabbard, brown handle probably bakelite, eagle not aluminum, engraved "alles für deutschland", visible marks of using on the blade, scabbard and even lots of grease in the scabbard

I have googled and checked your forums - some say RZM never made daggers for SS, others say it did (example 807/36), and that m7/36 is a common spanish 70s reproduction, but because of the hand engraved text and because my father and his fishing friend are good buddies and his granpa claimed to use both daggers i just wanna make it clear - is there any known ss m7/36 in the entire world?
The SA m7/85 looks more legit, marks of using and wearing scabbard, grease inside etc. I am travelling around europe so I cant get pictures or see it before 3 weeks from now, but in the meantime my father should decide whether to buy them or not. Price is cca 200-250$ for both. Question is, even if the SS m7/36 is a repro, is it worth investing money to find out if the SA m7/85 is original?

Best regards and thanks for help
p.s. nice to join the community

[gerrit]

Welcome here Josip,

you ask if we can give you an asnwer if it is well worth trying to see if the daggers are genuine.
In fact no one here can give you any Insurance when you have no pictures....

But the fact that 200-250 dollars for both daggers is much to low, and everyone can goolge prices now a days...
Old saying: if it is to good to be true it mostly is.....
Other fact is: you think both grips are made of bakelite, well that is a bad sign, if the grips are not made of wood i would not buy them, not even for 50 euro both...then they are surely repro.....

So better wait and post good pics of them before you buy....they last that long, so a few weeks wont hurt wont it?

Cheers,
Ger

[Larry C]

Helo Josip welcome to the forum...The SA RZM7/85 is a legitimate maker ( Arthur Evertz)...I have no SS contract listing on the maker RZM7/36 as this maker is E&F Horster..when you get a chance here is a link to all RZM makers and including below that..the SS contract numbers to date of some who participated in this monitored production heres the link https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/ss-di...ct-codes-1028/

What would be of great help is photos are very necessary..the strangest things have happened what we would think is not possible a SS maker surfaces one day which is not on the contract list. This is why photos play a very important role in authenticity...you may well have an obscure SS example..but it is hard to prove unless we see the dagger itself. From that point we would be able to tell you if it is good or not,,,but without photos...your dagger is as good as fake! Sorry to say......" Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see".. is an old phrase. No disrespect towards you but photos will help us help you. Thanks for posting your question. Best regards Larry

[Wagriff]

Hello Josip and Welcome! Unfortunately, as has been said, we can tell you nothing without clear close up photos of the 2 daggers you talk about. They could be valuable or they could be totally worthless. Without being able to see them, there is no way that we can tell simply from description.

[mynsatrop]

Hello once again and tnx for all the usefull information, father took some pictures with his old canon (not dslr unfortunately) so sorry for bad quality. I told him what to photo and I think we have plenty of pictures now

[Adrian Stevenson]

Sorry these are both fake.

Cheers, Ade.

[Dean]

Agree with Ade. If you look at other threads on the forum regarding these daggers you will easily see the difference. The handles on these were made of wood. The eagle on the SS is very poorly made and lacks the typical detail of any TR item I've seen. Sorry for the bad news but that's why we are here, to help people learn and not lose well earned cash. Welcome , by the way and please take some time to browse the various threads...you will lose sleep but will love it here!

[Larry C]

Hi Josip...thankyou for posting the photos as this is what was needed to see..to help identify what you have. As above....these are modern day repros..and great advice from Dean when you get a chance to look through our SA Reference threads. Below is a photo of one of my own to show you the comparison of grip eagle style. I can see by the condition of both daggers that the were both opened and altered especially the grip area and the added runes buttons to the grips. These are really not worth anything in the condition they are in ..even as a repro. You came to the right place..and let any of out forum memebrs here know when your ready to acquire an authentic example..they will point you in the right direction and also guide you in any questions you may have. We have a great team here that are knowledgeable in all areas of edged weapon collecting. Below is a grip eagle photo. Regards Larry