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SA-Marine dagger ?

Article about: Hello all, I recently picked up a collection from a former Chaplain in his 80's that spent 14 years in Germany. Within his daggers, he had this and I am quite puzzled by it. The fittings app

  1. #1

    Default SA-Marine dagger ?

    Hello all,

    I recently picked up a collection from a former Chaplain in his 80's that spent 14 years in Germany. Within his daggers, he had this and I am quite puzzled by it. The fittings appear to be correct to the handle and neither insignia in the handle have been removed or replaced. The fittings look like they've almost been scrubbed with steel wool. Is the scabbard correct for a transitional WKC piece? Obviously you can see the handle is painted black, but why is this? I had this at the Max and a few people I showed it to mentioned that it may be SA-Marine related, is there any validity to that statement?



    William Kramer
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  3. #2

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    Parts William ...runes button is repro. Something is going on with that upper guard. Lower guard is late. Total recent repaint. High gloss.

    The valaditity is that it was made to look like SA marine..or an over zealous NSKK paint job..which us niether IMO. HIGH gloss paint and messed with grip.

    The paint itself steers me away from this.
    Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  4. #3

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    I sincerely appreciate you taking time out of your day to help me.

    William Kramer
    Us and them - and after all we’re only ordinary men. Me, and you - God only knows it’s not what we would choose to do. Forward he cried from the rear, and the front rank died, and the general sat and the lines on the map moved from side to side.

    - US & THEM, THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON - PINK FLOYD

  5. #4

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    The SA Marine dagger with black grip and scabbard is shown worn by an SA Marine troop in the 1936 edition of the NSDAP Organisation Buch. However, in all subsequent editions the dagger shown is a standard brown SA dagger worn with the blue Marine uniform. This has fuelled collector controversy for many years: i.e., was the 1936 plate an error/ or, was the black SA Marine limited to a few early daggers?

    I have never seen a black SA dagger where I could have confidence in its provenance. I have personally had a couple of standard brown early SA's with Marine Brigade identies engraved on the crossguards.

    W Kramer is well known for sourcing items from veterans so it is possible that the dagger shown was period painted, but personally I would not place any price premium on it. Jmho.

  6. #5

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    Veterans are, unfortunately, quite well known for messing with relics. Having brought them back from a defeated enemy, most of them did not consider them to be anything but curios and toys to tinker with. This dagger shown is a complete mess. As Larry said, the rune roundel is not proper. To me it looks like someone set in an emblem from a stick pin. The guards are both heavily ruined by ferocious cleaning or over buffing and the wood grip never began it's life as black and most probably never ended it as black either, but the person that played with this dagger was overly ambitious in trying to make it look like something it is not. It may be worth a small amount for the value of the few usable parts that are in it, but, unfortunately, that's about it.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  7. #6

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    can you show me what you're seeing in the roundel compared to the ones I have on these daggers?

    William Kramer
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  8. #7

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    Runes buttons vary in slight background color and convex type being slightly rounded spherically... But always being the same in diameter. Compare and measure to the 2_examples shown and also compare the text style of the runic SA symbol.

    I hope this helps and us understandable

    Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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