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Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger

Article about: Hi everyone, I've been collecting Dress Bayonets for a little while, but came across this Tiger Solingen SA Dagger that I'm considering buying. I know very little about them (apart from some

  1. #1
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    Default Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger

    Hi everyone,

    I've been collecting Dress Bayonets for a little while, but came across this Tiger Solingen SA Dagger that I'm considering buying.

    I know very little about them (apart from some stuff that I've read tonight), so was hoping to get some feedback on this particular one before I commit to buying.

    The images are from a website, so aren't the best quality, but I'll see if I can obtain some better photos tomorrow. Unfortunately, no image of the reverse was available on the site.

    My thoughts:

    The maker mark - Tiger of Solingen - matches with the "NS" on the crossguard, and the handle seem to be a good fit with both crossguards. The Eagle and the Roundel seems to fit properly, and there appears to be cross grain that runs across the blade (image 4).

    Based on the above, I think it looks real, but as I've said, I really don't know too much about SA Daggers and this would be the first in my collection.

    What are your thoughts?

    Thanks in advance.
    Darren

    Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger

    Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger

    Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger

    Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger

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  3. #2
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    Photos hopefully coming tomorrow.

  4. #3
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    I've attached some slightly better quality photos of the originals, plus a couple of new ones.

    I'm very interested in hearing opinions on this, including any concerns, and also how much you think it would be worth (I'm in Australia, so prices are generally a little higher here, even taking into account the currency exchange rate). The asking amount is reasonably high, and I've just come across one that's half the price (but the photos are very bad and it's in another Australian state, so I can't visually inspect it). And while the price of this one is high, I physically checked out another SA Dagger over the weekend, but that price was almost twice as high as this one is.

    I'm not overly concerned if I have to pass this one by, as I also have my eye on some other items.

    Thanks in advance. :-)

    Cheers,
    Darren
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger   Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger  

    Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger   Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger  

    Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger  

  5. #4

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    I see no issues with this dagger and all appears to be correct including the dark type grip seen on this Lauterjung producer.

    Compare your pricing and condition here > Alles Fur Deutschland SA Daggers | Lakesidetrader
    This forum and overall website studies and teaches history which valuation is not a service we provide. Sorry.

    Compare and study which will serve you in valuation of these edged weapon types.

    Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  6. #5
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    Hi Larry,

    Many thanks for the response - it's greatly appreciated.

    The Lakesidetrader website has been a great source of information about detecting real vs fake SA Daggers, as well as pricing. Wittmann Militaria has also been quite helpful.

    That's fair enough about the valuations as well. I was really only asking as the pricing of three SA Daggers I've looked at since Saturday have effectively been double each other in value ($500, $1000 and $1895 AUD). The most expensive was RZM marked and apparently manufactured in 1938, but the other two are earlier, and while there is a bit of a difference condition wise (based purely on photos), the difference between $500 and $1000 is quite large.

    Based on pricing, it would seem that the RZM SA Daggers are slightly cheaper than early maker mark SA Daggers (assuming condition is roughly the same), which makes the $1895 AUD SA Dagger exceptionally expensive. I've attached a couple of photos I took of that (although, I was able to handle it and check out the condition).

    Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger

    Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger

    Cheers,
    Darren

  7. #6

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    Hello Darren, Here you will be surprised at the knowledge and help you will receive from the members here.Just try not to stay up all night as it is quite addictive!!

    Regards, Geoff

  8. #7
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    Hi Geoff,

    Good to hear from you.

    Too late I'm afraid - I've already spent most of the previous night and the early hours reading up, comparing images, and learning as much as I possibly can.

    It's definitely addictive. I did the same thing before buying my first Dress Bayonet. And the second one. By the forth one, I was able to get a full night's sleep. ;-)

    Cheers,
    Darren

  9. #8

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    Based upon condition and desirability ..the prices will fluctuate higher even for mid to late period RZM types.
    The real beauty of the craft and history remains solidly within the early period examples.

    I try to remind new collectors as well as seasoned not to lose focus the real struggle for power lies within the early days of the SA who of which put Hitler into power on and before 1933.
    After the removal of Ernst Rohm in 1934 ..the SS climbed to power and the teeth of the SA were removed ..those men some of them absorbed into the SS , the Army or wherever needed.

    Those SA men that were left over into the mid to late period were just functionaries and the Late SA dagger IMO just did not have the power anymore.

    I would say the last hurrah of the SA would be in 1938 when Austria was taken by Hitler and also the dark night of " Kristallnacht "
    From 1939 onward the Sting of the SA would become less.

    The real investment is within the early craftmanship of the early type daggers with the usage of superior materials and tightly fitted parts.
    Take notice to most of the later SA types not as well fitted and plated silver over the use of cheaper metals used.

    If you want ' Real History " acquire an Early SA dagger. There is no removal and loss of value where it matters most.
    A late RZM type is also history to and can be taught as such as I had explained above. A Late SA dagegr can be show cased next to an early type to show the noticeable differences in craft quality and material.

    I am a Zealot when it comes to the early History of the SA dagger. In the future if your able which I know Paul Hogle is able to send you one. ....seek a Haco produced SA dagger. These guys were bad asses of Berlin led by the early Berlin SA leader Karl Ernst.

    see this link for details on the Haco SA dagger and how this dagger is such an impact on the type collector.
    Haco Early SA Dienst Dolch

    One you acquire one SA dagger....the fever begins in the quest for more. Have fun and as they say in the casinos here ..." Bet with your head and not over it " ...meaning dont go too ballistic collecting these when there are other financial priorities that matter most.

    We are all here to learn and will be looking forward in the near future of any SA daggers you acquire and post them here for the community to enjoy and study !

    Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #9
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    Hi Larry, thanks again for the response.

    I'm in complete agreeance with you about the earlier period of history when it comes to the SA, and this is something that is quite often overlooked in favour of collecting SS items. AH's rise to power and the Night of the Long Knives has always fascinated me, particularly because it's a period of history often overlooked by many people.

    From my perspective, I'm quite open to collecting edged weapons of any variety (Bayonets, Dress Bayonets, Sabres/Swords and Daggers), however, I do have a fondness for the earlier SA daggers, including those with the Rohm inscription (removed, semi-removed or still visible), as well as variants. And as you've mentioned, even the late RZMs are a snapshot of what was happening, particularly with the change in manufacturing materials during war time, so they are definitely on my list.

    I'm very mindful of money at the moment, but quality is important to me, so I'm happy to take time deciding on my first purchase. :-)

    I'll have a look at the Haco link you've included. I need to check up on import laws into Australia, as they can be a little funny with daggers and swords (bayonets seem to be ok, but double edged daggers can have issues).

    Once I've made my first SA Dagger purchase, I'll be sure to take some photos and post up better photos.

    Thanks for all the great information and help you've provided - I can't thank you enough. :-)

    Cheers,
    Darren

  11. #10
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    Argh, I requested some photos of another SA Dagger for sale ($400), and these are the photos I received.

    Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger

    Thoughts on a Tiger Solingen SA Dagger

    It's not something that I would buy, but I am interested in some feedback on whether it's real or fake (or a 'parts' dagger). I don't know if it has a makers mark or RZM (or both).

    Damage aside, my personal opinion is that it's fake (please correct me if I'm wrong).

    The red flags as I see them:

    1. The crossguards don't seem right. They seem a bit shorter in length. Whether this is because someone has attempted to clean it up, or the camera angle, I'm not sure, but they seem shorter. The grooves on both crossguards don't seem right either (top and bottom of each).
    2. The crossguard fit to the blade - could be because it's been disassembled/'repaired', and I'm sure I can where the tang goes into the crossguard.
    3. The motto doesn't seem right. This may be because someone has tried to 'clean' the blade, and so there's no 'depth', but this could be because of light or the angle of the camera.
    4. The handle is certainly a bad fit to the lower crossguard. The angled lower portion on one side seems straighter than the other side.
    5. The area around the eagle and the eagle itself is very badly worn (and seems flattened) and the roundel is at an odd rotation, so has obviously been removed and/or replaced.
    6. The pommel nut is damaged, so it's obviously been disassembled (badly), but the nut portion itself doesn't seem right either when viewed closely.

    There are probably other things that can be picked up on as well.

    Cheers,
    Darren

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