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Warsaw Uprising SA Dienstdolch

Article about: Another thought....who might be the producer of this dagger judging by the lower crossguard?

  1. #51

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    Quote by Larry C View Post
    Stefan would it be possible to see the back of the Polish eagle and see what the prongs look like? This may lead to how something like this could be attached to the grip..it looks as thought the Polish eagle is contoured to the grip.
    False alarm..not the same small eagle at all now its in macro view. Much cruder detail in white metal.



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    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

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  3. #52

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    I would like to hear from some of the Polish collectors from their forum that may have some insight and photos of this type of eagle being used on a uniform or cap ..to help authenticate the eagle itself.

    By the way on a lighter note..the Fighter on the right under the orange arrow is Hollywood actor "Joe Pesci"
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    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  4. #53

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    Joe Peschi...the arch-typical Italian mobster style actor playing a Polish freedom fighter....An interesting job of Casting...
    As for the NSKK dagger, I don't buy it either. To sit and do supposition of "If this had happened...AND This had then occurred..And Then the man would have had to...And Then be in this area for This", etc. etc., by this reasoning, you could eventually find a way for Julius Caesar to have been in the battle with it for a spear tip.... The bottom line being here that this dagger should not be where they said it was. I guess we're just lucky it wasn't a U-Boot dagger....
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  5. #54

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    ....only it seems a NSKK dagger could be have been found in Warsaw as there is factual reference for the NSKK being there as part of Governor Frank's occupation administration of the GG, unless there is hard information to the contrary?

    Therefore bearing in mind that the NSKK was not a native organisation to Warsaw or even Poland but was German it is pretty obvious a dagger belonging to an NSKK functionary could also have come with him from Germany...kind of puts a torpedo (to use the u-boat metaphor) through the "bottom line" that such a dagger should not have been in Warsaw let alone Poland and so the "Mewa" story unbelievable on that basis alone.

    * * * *

    What I find curious is how Sapuła managed to keep the dagger in his possession given that immediately after the capitulation of the Rising all of the remaining AK, NSZ, insurgent fighters as well as the civilian Varsovians were evacuated from the city and deported to camps in Germany and the city methodically blown up block by block. We know Marian Sapuła went into captivity at this time and his PoW number was 298888. IMO it would not have been possible to hide such a large weapon on his person and have kept it through captivity. Sapuła's family address in Warsaw was ul. Żelazna 27 m.3 and would probably have been destroyed either during the Rising or by the German demolition teams throughout October-November 1944. This is for me the most puzzling aspect to the story of "Mewa" and his captured SA dagger.

    Below: Żelazna street taken during the fighting, pretty much destroyed already.

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    One of about sixty original photos I have in my collection taken during the fighting in Warsaw center district, the others can be found here:
    Powstanie Warszawskie 1944 - Oficjalna strona Stowarzyszenia Pamici Powstania Warszawskiego 1944
    Last edited by StefanM; 11-26-2013 at 11:50 AM.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  6. #55

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    Great information and photographic reference Stefan..which makes alot of sense...during that time ..I feel I myself would be running for my life and only carrying what was essential to survive. Guns bullets a handful of food..a boot knife.." Which this dagger is not" These guys lived day to day and really had no hopes at the moment of looking forward to a bright future..kind of like what is happening economically in alot of countries today. "Will the dread ever pass"..must of been on the minds of these freedom fighters.

    I feel this dagger was awarded or given to him post war..with the date and name inscribed of the "Time of struggle" in Warsaw. This much I can believe,,due to the condition of the dagger and scabbard. Take a look at the difference in the name "Newa" and the punch marked date!. The punch marks look rather recent and are not filled in with excesses of time.. compared to the name which looks to have been done during the period or right after the war. The lighter wood shows through the punch marks. This is a post war punch application almost close to recently done.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  7. #56

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    This dagger shows signs of being opened also...as the tang nut shows a glint of silver breaking through the patina..and no its not the camera flash. Just under the round part of the tang nut on the Octagon side.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  8. #57

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    I think we can finally nail this question over whether the NSKK were in Poland and indeed Warsaw once and for all, they were.

    a) German book published in 1940:
    Wir waren mit in Polen: der 'Einsatz Ost' des NSKK author Carl Otto Windecker with a foreword by NSKK corps leader Adolf Hühnlein. Published by M.A. Klieber Verlag Berlin, 1940. Hardcover. 208 pages, 15 full-page photo-illustrations on coated panels + 1 document facsimile: 'letter of Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler to Adolf Hühnlein betr.der NSKK companies in Warsaw, Petrikau and Radom',

    b) TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT 2278-PS
    Official tour of Reich Minister Dr. Seyss-Inquart to the districts of Warsaw, Lublin, and Radom from 17th November to 22nd November 1939.
    " Dr. Lasch now discussed the plan to establish a messenger center in Radom in order to remedy the bad communication system between Cracow and Lublin and between Cracow and Warsaw. According to this plan, mail for all the three northern districts of Cracow should be taken in 5 hours to Radom by train and from there, according to the weather, to the respective places of destination either by NSKK [Nationalsozialistisches Kraftfahrer (Motorists) Korps] messenger or otherwise. The same procedure should be used for the return journey. The agency should be called, perhaps: "Messenger agency of the Governor General in Radom".

    c) Wehrmacht Awards forum post:
    My great grandfather was a dutch member of the NSB organisation. One month ago I found out in the Dutch national archives that he also was a member of the NSKK during the war. They only mentioned in the archives that during that period he went to Warsaw, Poland.

    Confirmation that members of the NSKK were often transferred:

    "With the outbreak of World War II in 1939, the National Socialist Motor Corps became a target of the Wehrmacht for recruitment, since NSKK members possessed knowledge of motorized transport, whereas the bulk of the Wehrmacht relied on horses. Most NSKK members thereafter joined the regular military, serving in the transport corps of the various service branches."

    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  9. #58

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    As suspected the original photo of the dagger was taken in the Rising Museum warehouse where exhibits were being collected before display, some further images in the warehouse store taken at the same time but unfortunately no more of the "Mewa" dagger.

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    Last edited by StefanM; 11-12-2013 at 01:00 PM.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

  10. #59

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    Hmm...so, from the records, it appears that a number of NSKK may actually have been in Warsaw during the conflict-despite the difference in the records dating of 1939-40 and the Uprising's date of 1944. Still, going by this, it's hard to understand why an NSKK man would have been in Warsaw during the late of the war-perhaps, as hinted at, he had been absorbed into the Heer and gotten sentimental over his dagger that he had needed to originally pay for and decided to keep it with him? Which is, in itself, a small mystery, as I doubt much that there were many ceremonial occasions to wear and display it in Fall of 1944 Warsaw. And if he had been taken into the Heer, would he even have been allowed to wear it even during ceremony is another small mystery. Doubtful, but distantly possible, I suppose. One would have thought that it would have been more practical to simply have sent it back home rather than have to trundle it around with him in a rapidly deteriorating war situation, but stranger things have happened.

    In any case, this would leave us with an ex-NSKK man teaching vehicle driving, tank operation and handling to the troops stationed there along with himself. Somewhere along the line of events, this driving instructor apparently got himself caught up and killed somehow. It stretches the believability to say that he died in the rising itself, but it just may have been possible. And, there I would have to draw the end of the line of credibility of "what if-ing" there and leave the unfortunate man to his fate, but his Dagger, somehow, in the meanwhile, ended up in the hands of the Polish rebels? However that may have occurred, the dagger has from it's appearance, been considerably altered and played with-adding the eagle, the dot carvings, etc. And going by the wood, it is simply untenable that the carvings were done during the uprising or anytime shortly afterwards. The light inner wood of the grip carvings show us that these carvings had to have been added not all that very long ago-certainly not 7 decades. It is unfortunate, but convenient to the story that the dagger is not pictured or mentioned in the above photos, as this would have been of considerable aid. It is Highly more plausible that somewhere in Poland this dagger was acquired and ended up being enhanced and donated to the museum with the unbelievable story that accompanied it. This could well have been at anytime during the last several decades, but during the 1944-5 era? Almost definitely not.

    I wonder if it would be at all possible to Contact this museum and simply Ask them when the dagger was acquired and under what circumstances? That is, of course, if the museum officials have the records of it or could be believed to tell the verbatim truth-admitting that they have a somewhat controversial display item in their collection could be embarrassing and harmful to their image...
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  11. #60

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    A 1943 death card for NSKK man buried in Brest Litowsk, Belarus ...even further East than Warsaw.

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    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

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