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The Dangers of Battlefield Digging

Article about: We've all heard stories of the dangers of battlefield digging. Unexploded ammo, mines, etc.... As a relatively new enthusiast, i would greatly appreciate some advice on detecting and digging

  1. #81

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    the pistol rounds are in good condition to be honest but even after cleaning the markings can´t be seen

  2. #82
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    If it matters to you personally which caliber they are, you can simply measure them with calipers and thus determine which of the two above mentioned calibers they are.

    I bet they are the Russian Tok caliber.

    (the bottle necked 7.63×25mm Mauser was the foundation for the Tokarev caliber. The rounds might also be bottle neck Mauser rounds).

  3. #83

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    It is Russian TT or PPSh ammo.

  4. #84
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    Quote by Frundsberg View Post
    It is Russian TT or PPSh ammo.

    Yes, I agree. As mentioned, most likely the 7.62×25mm Tokarev cartridge, as is the designation.


    How ever, we cant rule out that - in theory - it could well be for example the 7.63×25mm Mauser round, as this could feed in Russian captured weapons firing the 7.62×25mm Tokarev cartridge.
    Something which became of importance with the increasing amount of weapons at one time captured on the Eastern Front.

    Remember, all stop-gap measures counted at the time of the Halbe Battle.

    You and I both know, that in the light of circumstance and the Tokarev caliber being prevalent, it is most likely that caliber, but as for example the Mauser round was ALSO widely used, we cant just categorically state, that it is X-caliber.

    Again, most like the Tok, but I wouldnt stake my like on it.

    Prior to the First World War, the 7.63×25mm Mauser caliber Mauser C-96 pistol gained in popularity worldwide. In 1908, the Czarist army placed the C-96 on a list of approved sidearms that officers could purchase at their own expense in lieu of carrying the Nagant M1895 revolver. Between 1914 and 1917, more Mauser pistols and ammunition were obtained as captured arms from German and Turkish forces. The Mauser and its cartridge were used on all fronts of the Russian Civil War and in the 1920s, during a period of relatively close cooperation between Soviet Russia and the Weimar Republic, the Red Army purchased batches of the smaller Bolo version as well as ammunition for use by its officers. Although a copy of the cartridge was being produced at the Podolsky Ammunition Factory, the Soviets eventually purchased a license and manufacturing equipment from DWM in Germany to produce the cartridge. In 1929, the Soviet Artillery Committee made a proposal to develop a domestic pistol chambered for the Mauser cartridge. After considerable research and development, it was decided that the "Model 1930 7.62 mm Pistol Cartridge," essentially the Mauser round with minor modifications, was to become the standard caliber for Soviet pistols and submachine guns. Early versions of the Vasily Degtyaryov-designed PPD-40 submachine gun were marked "For Mauser Cartridge Caliber 7.62 mm".

    The cartridge is in principle an enhanced Russian version of the 7.63×25mm Mauser.

    The 7.63×25mm Mauser (.30 Mauser Automatic) round was the original ammunition of the Mauser C96 service pistol. This cartridge headspaces on the shoulder of the case.The basis of this cartridge was the 7.65mm Borchardt of 1893, the only successful automatic pistol cartridge in production at the time. The 7.63mm Mauser is sometimes confused with the later 7.65mm Parabellum (.30 Parabellum), also a bottlenecked pistol cartridge.

    Firearms chambered for the 7.63mm Mauser cartridge include the C96 and variants and copies, the Astra Model 900 and variants, the 1911-pattern Star models A and M,[2] and a handful of pre-World War II submachine guns such as the Swiss Bergmann M/20 exported to China and Japan and the SIG MKMO.

    The 7.63mm Mauser cartridge was the basis for the 7.62mm Tokarev, adopted by the Soviet Union. Although the case dimensions of the two cartridges are nearly identical, the 7.62mm Tokarev has a stronger powder charge and is generally not suited for use in Mauser C96 pistols or other firearms chambered for 7.63mm Mauser. However, the 7.63mm Mauser could be used in firearms chambered for the 7.62mm Tokarev: something that became important later during WWII on the Eastern Front when the Germans began using captured 7.62x25mm weapons, notably the PPSh-41 and fed them with 7.63mm Mauser rounds. During the Finnish-Soviet Winter War and World War II, the cartridge was issued by Finnish and German forces for use in captured Soviet submachine guns, due to its inherent substitutability for the Soviet 7.62×25mm round. According to Finnish military archives, the Finnish Army ordered one million rounds of 7.63mm Mauser from FN for this purpose.

  5. #85

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    I don´t know why my message never appeared, anyway i have looked but the markings are not very good, they are definately Russian markings with what i can make out it looks like a T and the number 44 i used this website
    Russian & Soviet 7.62x54r

  6. #86
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    Thanks for info.
    That would be the rifle rounds.
    The 7.62x54r is the epitome of Russian rifle cartridges of that period ....or of all time.
    I bet its the longest 'serving' military rifle cartridge of all time.

  7. #87

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    This story about these issued FN rounds i can confirm. My friend found FN rounds on the eastern front at SS positions which we couldnt understand. But now we know. Thanks for the info.

  8. #88
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    Quote by Scout View Post
    Thanks for info.
    That would be the rifle rounds.
    The 7.62x54r is the epitome of Russian rifle cartridges of that period ....or of all time.
    I bet its the longest 'serving' military rifle cartridge of all time.
    It is Scout

    Cheers

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