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Kriegsabzeichen für Minensuch-, U-Boots-Jagd- und Sicherungsverbände - Real or Fake?

Article about: Hi folks, First time posting on this forum. This appears to be a great place to get opinions from people who have been collecting for a long time. I will try to seek answers on any awards/ba

  1. #1

    Default Kriegsabzeichen für Minensuch-, U-Boots-Jagd- und Sicherungsverbände - Real or Fake?

    Hi folks,

    First time posting on this forum. This appears to be a great place to get opinions from people who have been collecting for a long time. I will try to seek answers on any awards/badges pre-purchase. Thus I thank every one in advance for their feedback.

    But in this case I already purchased this item. Doh! It was sold as a "...an early Minesweeper badge in Tombak. I (seller) believes it is an unmarked R.K. but I could be wrong. It is 100% original and in fine condition."

    Here are the pics:

    Real or fake?

    Thank you for your time!
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Kriegsabzeichen für Minensuch-, U-Boots-Jagd- und Sicherungsverbände - Real or Fake?   Kriegsabzeichen für Minensuch-, U-Boots-Jagd- und Sicherungsverbände - Real or Fake?  

    Kriegsabzeichen für Minensuch-, U-Boots-Jagd- und Sicherungsverbände - Real or Fake?  

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  3. #2

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    Hello and welcome to the forum!
    I don't really study these but it looks like a good candidate to me.
    Wait for some of our other members that are very versed in these.
    Ralph.
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  4. #3

    Default

    I would say that the vendor is correct in his sumation as regards this badge, it's a good Karneth example for me too.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  5. #4

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    Thanks guys. Appreciate the help. I am sure I will have further inquiries in this area. This site is already becoming addicting, ha!

  6. #5

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    Agreed with that...This site has a vast wealth of knowledge from what I see...I joined a few days ago myself. Welcome trespass!

  7. #6

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    Interesting badge indeed.

    It certainly looks like a good early tombak badge of the R.K design,although it is still uncertain as to whether Rudolf Karneth was the maker of the "R.K" marked awards.
    I do not recall seeing an unmarked example before but i think it is fair to say that the badge was made in Gablonz.


    I'll be interested to see what Norm thinks of this one.

    Cheers,Martin.

  8. #7

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    Quote by martinw View Post
    Interesting badge indeed.

    It certainly looks like a good early tombak badge of the R.K design,although it is still uncertain as to whether Rudolf Karneth was the maker of the "R.K" marked awards.
    I do not recall seeing an unmarked example before but i think it is fair to say that the badge was made in Gablonz.


    I'll be interested to see what Norm thinks of this one.

    Cheers,Martin.
    Hi Martin,

    I'm assuming you mean if the maker is Rudolf Karneth or Robert Kreisel? I think I read somewhere there was even a possibility the unmarked tombak badges of this design type might have been made by Adolf Scholze/AS in Triangle (attributed)?

    As you know, there's also a pretty convincing unmarked fake that closely resembles this particular badge that has caused much discussion before, but I can't really see the similarities to that one that I'd expect to see in these photo's, although perhaps I've missed something critical or even obvious??

    I certainly would also value Norm's input as this is all a little murky to me still, and a clear explanation from Norm would be of great assistance to me personally in helping to better understand the complexities regarding this and other minesweeper badges! Hopefully he'll respond soon, this is interesting!!

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  9. #8

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    Quote by big ned View Post
    Hi Martin,


    As you know, there's also a pretty convincing unmarked fake that closely resembles this particular badge that has caused much discussion before, but I can't really see the similarities to that one that I'd expect to see in these photo's, although perhaps I've missed something critical or even obvious??

    Regards, Ned.
    I was not not aware of this unmarked fake Ned.
    Overall i like the look of this badge but if it does turn out to be fake,then it's a damn good one.

    Cheers,Martin.

  10. #9

    Default Follow-up to this particular thread.

    Hi all,

    Since there seems to be some vacillating between the originality of the R.K. Kriegsabzeichen für Minensuch-, U-Boots-Jagd- und badge I posted I thought I would post some picks from a very similarly made Kriegsmarine badge the same person has for sale.

    Let me first state that I believe the seller to be a very honest, upstanding person thus I do not believe he would knowingly try to pass off a reproduction as original. In fact he always points out the reproductions on his site and sells them as such.

    Thus on to the next badge; A Zerstörer-Kriegsabzeichen badge.

    Seller's comments; "This is an unkarked R.K. made destroyer service badge in tombak. Shows surface wear to the obverse but is 100% original and honest."

    Pics below. What do you think now that you can compare this badge to the minesweeper badge? Clasp and catch on the obverse almost exactly the same between the two badges. Again thanks to all who have replied.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Kriegsabzeichen für Minensuch-, U-Boots-Jagd- und Sicherungsverbände - Real or Fake?   Kriegsabzeichen für Minensuch-, U-Boots-Jagd- und Sicherungsverbände - Real or Fake?  

    Kriegsabzeichen für Minensuch-, U-Boots-Jagd- und Sicherungsverbände - Real or Fake?  

  11. #10

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    Quote by trespass View Post
    Hi all,

    Since there seems to be some vacillating between the originality of the R.K. Kriegsabzeichen für Minensuch-, U-Boots-Jagd- und badge I posted I thought I would post some picks from a very similarly made Kriegsmarine badge the same person has for sale.

    Let me first state that I believe the seller to be a very honest, upstanding person thus I do not believe he would knowingly try to pass off a reproduction as original. In fact he always points out the reproductions on his site and sells them as such.

    Thus on to the next badge; A Zerstörer-Kriegsabzeichen badge.

    Seller's comments; "This is an unkarked R.K. made destroyer service badge in tombak. Shows surface wear to the obverse but is 100% original and honest."

    Pics below. What do you think now that you can compare this badge to the minesweeper badge? Clasp and catch on the obverse almost exactly the same between the two badges. Again thanks to all who have replied.
    This is not a Karneth badge, as far as I know they didn't make destroyer badges. It actually appears to me to be the Schickle design destroyer badge. Schickle went out of business in June 1941, and their entire production stock was sold off to various other manufacturers piecemeal. For instance, the PAB's went to B.H. Mayer, and the destroyer badges the same as above can be found stamped with the LDO number L/21 for Foerster & Barth.

    Having said that the badge does appear original to me, but wait out for other more knowledgeable opinions as to the whys and wherefores.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

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