Inscribed ED Wusthof Solingen OE SA Dienstdolch for consideration - A real rarity?

[PNWcollector]

Hello,

Yet another SA dagger is being offered my way. This is from the same estate as the Luftwaffe dagger I posted in another thread today. I don't know the seller personally and I know there is at least one (VERY obvious) repro dagger and likely a fake Panzer badge in the full estate she's offering to sell me, but she has no knowledge about WWII items and was willed them by her uncle. She has made no false claims about the repro items being real.

Now to the point (No pun intended). Overall to my relatively untrained eye this one looks pretty good. My gut feeling is pretty good on this one but I'm little leery because I've never dealt with one that was inscribed in this manner. I know the OE stamped on the guard indicates Austria and that ED Wusthof was indeed a producer of that gruppe. The makers mark looks pretty good to me? But am I possibly seeing some cross directional scratching around it? Other than the vertical sheath wear of course. Again, the inscriptions including the name on the top (I know there's a term, but it's slipping my mind) look pretty good, but I'm no expert on what these inscriptions should or, more importantly, shouldn't look like. Which is where you fine folk come in. Is this really a rarity bearing the membership number and name of the banned Austrian SA? Your help is much appreciated! If this is real then I've got to get my ducks in a row to make an offer before it slips away.

Sorry the photos aren't better, it's all I've got from the seller.

-Sam

[Larry C]

Hi Sam ..a thread you can read for now which has alot of information of this SA gruppe.
To Be honest ..Im not too fond of the engraved name on the upper guard because this SA gruppe did not want to be identified and caught.

The engraving itself I can not comment on and I will reply further later about the dagger itself that you posted.
Give a read through this link as I have the same type of dagger.

Early SA Ed Wustoff w/ Surprise

Regards Larry

[PNWcollector]

Hi Sam ..a thread you can read for now which has alot of information of this SA gruppe.
To Be honest ..Im not too fond of the engraved name on the upper guard because this SA gruppe did not want to be identified and caught.

The engraving itself I can not comment on and I will reply further later about the dagger itself that you posted.
Give a read through this link as I have the same type of dagger.

Early SA Ed Wustoff w/ Surprise

Regards Larry

Thanks Larry, I'll give it a read. Looking forward to hearing what else you have to say when you get the chance. Thank you as always for your help.

-Sam

[PNWcollector]

Just did a little digging on the two dates shown on the guard. Certainly couple of interesting dates for Hitler and the Nazi party.

Left side - April 2 1932 - Former German Crown Prince Wilhelm endorsed Adolf Hitler for president in the April 10 election. By making a political statement, Wilhelm broke his word to the German government that he would refrain from politics as a condition of his return to Germany from exile.

Right side - June 24 1932 - Hitler published a declaration from Nazi headquarters in Munich demanding that martial law be imposed throughout Germany to suppress communism.

Figured this might be interesting to those reading this thread.

The plot thickens...

-Sam

[Finngaill]

Dagger itself looks good except SA button miss some enamel and blade is dirty, full of fingerprints.
About engraving. Those dates looks well done, but I am little bit skeptical for those. There is slightly differents on numbers "2" and "3". Are those made at period time? That I cannot say.

[Larry C]

Impressive research on the dates that are on the crossguards...I would like to see closeups of the engraving and let other eyes comment.
Anything can be dated with a story..but what is needed is the engraving to be authenticated...I agree with Fingaill on some points of the dagger itself and will address that after work. Crazy holiday hours ..but tonight I will have more time.
See if you can get closeup photos of the engraving. Doesn't matter how much history there is and the name engraved on the upper guard is a concern.

Regards Larry

[PNWcollector]

Dagger itself looks good except SA button miss some enamel and blade is dirty, full of fingerprints.
About engraving. Those dates looks well done, but I am little bit skeptical for those. There is slightly differents on numbers "2" and "3". Are those made at period time? That I cannot say.

Hi Finngaill, I noticed that as well with the number. Almost as though they were changed at some point perhaps? There seems to be a difference from left to right as well. The date on the right doesn't have the same flourish on the two as the left date and middle number.

Agreed, the blade is certainly dirty. Looks to be some staining on the tip as well. Might wipe off, might not. Thanks for your insights!

-Sam

[PNWcollector]

Impressive research on the dates that are on the crossguards...I would like to see closeups of the engraving and let other eyes comment.
Anything can be dated with a story..but what is needed is the engraving to be authenticated...I agree with Fingaill on some points of the dagger itself and will address that after work. Crazy holiday hours ..but tonight I will have more time.
See if you can get closeup photos of the engraving. Doesn't matter how much history there is and the name engraved on the upper guard is a concern.

Regards Larry

Hi Larry, So true, would have been fairly easy for someone to pick some dates that would have been important to a member of the SA around the time the dagger was made and slap them on for added value at some point. And as you pointed out, given the history of the gruppe, having ones name proudly displayed doesn't line up. The engraving for the dates does seem, to me, to show the similar aging as 'oe' stamp or pretty close. The name on the handle looks different, more of an etched quality to it? Hard to tell with the current photos.

I'll ask the seller for more close up photos and hopefully she'll be able to get them for me.

I hear ya on the crazy holiday hours, these last few weeks have been a blur for me as well. Good to be busy I suppose? Thanks again for your help.

-Sam

[Larry C]

After reviewing the dagger itself and the "Oe" Gruppe mark..I see no issues with it.

The engraving I dont have the expertise to authenticate and most collectors are leary on finding anything numbered, lettered or name engraved guards. This day and age ..anything is possible and is 50/50.

Why this SA mann from this particular SA gruppe would put a Bullseye on his back with the NSDAP knowing what they were doing in Austria in 1934 as illegal I can not fathom. Alot of these guys went into hiding or were absorbed into other SA gruppes.
I just cant see anyone putting their name on a crossguard of this type of SA gruppe.

They were not just your regular in Germany parade types..they had a mission to create Kaos in Austria.
As I said..the dagger itself is fine..the engraving right now at this point doesnt mean anything until higher resolution photos can be provided.

Special Note : ..the engraving doesnt add too much more to the value of the dagger as these SA numbers are untraceable.

Regards Larry

[Frogprince]

I tried to enlarge the images to get a better sense of the dagger. My first impression being that it might be rotary engraved. Or maybe not??? Can we get some much better images? Best Regards, Fred