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Wehrpass: Gustav Geer - Luftwaffe - Flak-Strum-Regiment 20

Article about: Received a new Wehrpass today. This young gentleman was a member of Flak-Strum-Regiment 20, and was active in France during D-Day. The seller tells me he participated in the Normandy invasio

  1. #31

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    No doubt it's an original Wehrpass, and I agree with the seller that postwar enhancements are usually done for profit...I believe this to be such an item...Just my overall opinion...
    cheers, Glenn
    Last edited by bigmacglenn; 11-16-2014 at 10:41 PM.

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  3. #32

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    This is certainly a very confusing Wehrpass as some entries lead down one path and others lead down another.

    The WP was re-issued in late 1944. If the last original unit entry was in 1942 then why did it take so long to reissue what was an important document and what would cause such a loss? Usually it was where a HQ was either over-run or encircled such as Stalingrad, Tunisia and Cherkassy - and Falaise which would fit the time frame better for a 1944 replacement issue.
    And if he left the service in 1942 then I'd expect to see some entry from that year entered on page 26/27 but the entries are from May 1945. The Feldpost Number in the stamp seems to be 217xx which doesn't fit the unit but that isn't unusual. In those last days the person could of just grabbed the nearest stamp and not necessarily the right one. I have a WP to a Knights Cross winner who even filled that part out himself in May 1945.

    As for the pencil entries - look at his job within the Abteilung on Page 21. He was trained as the Abteilung clerk. In other words he was the one who would make such entries in the WP's of others. As to when they were entered is impossible to say but it is entirely possible that they are period done or it could even be possible that as the war ended he grabbed the official paperwork that gave instructions on what was to be entered on Campaign Pages and wrote them in afterwards. I have a number of WP that have some pencil entries for the end of the war right up to to an Oberstleutnant i.G.'s. it happened, especially if you had access to the official paperwork. Comparison with another Flak.Rgt 20 WP would help but finding one is the problem.

    As for the award entries, I'm not so sure. He was the clerk so would he see that much combat? Sometimes yes, especially in those chaotic days, and sometimes no. Personally I am not so sure of the award entries but you never know. But apart from the award entries I am on the side of this WP being ok.

  4. #33

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    Thanks Glen and Hucks! I'm talking with a guy on WAF (Ian Jewison who is a moderator over there) who thinks he has a Soldbuch from the 20th. So, we may get that comparison.

    He basically said the same thing, that he believes the penciled entries are correct, but is questioning the awards as well. He asked if the handwriting on any of the awards matched the dismissal handwriting on 26-27. I believe the EKII is a pretty close match, but the EK1 and GAB are completely different.

    Hucks, did the soldiers tend to keep jobs throughout their career? The Abteilung clerk entry is dated 1939. Interesting stuff at the very least.

    More to come!
    "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis

  5. #34

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    Wanted to thank you all for the help again. I have learned an absolute ton about the Wehrpass from this one. I'm going to be able to tell far more about these going forward now. Definitely not a total loss, even if it turned out to be 100% bad.

    You are all appreciated.
    "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis

  6. #35

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    Quote by avenger View Post
    Wanted to thank you all for the help again. I have learned an absolute ton about the Wehrpass from this one. I'm going to be able to tell far more about these going forward now. Definitely not a total loss, even if it turned out to be 100% bad.

    You are all appreciated.
    I wouldn't say it is 100% bad. If the EK I & Assault Badge entry is fake then that doesn't make the rest of the WP a write-off necessarily. I have a couple of items that have a dubious award entry but I was happy to overlook it at the time as the rest of the WP/SB outweighed that bit. It all comes down to what you are, or are not, happy to accept at the time, including the asking price.

  7. #36

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    For me, the penciled in combat activity is what I'm most interested in. An EKII isn't bad for awards, as it shows he was doing more than warming a chair. But, if the penciled in stuff is authentic, this pass was sitting behind German lines at the Battle of the Bulge and was there for it all. That's worth the price of admission for me, and I'd be happy.
    "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis

  8. #37

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    Quote by avenger View Post
    For me, the penciled in combat activity is what I'm most interested in. An EKII isn't bad for awards, as it shows he was doing more than warming a chair. But, if the penciled in stuff is authentic, this pass was sitting behind German lines at the Battle of the Bulge and was there for it all. That's worth the price of admission for me, and I'd be happy.
    And if that means you can overlook the dubious award entries and still be happy with it then that's all that matters at the end of the day. It's your hobby, your rules!

  9. #38

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    Did some more sleuthing on this pass, and thought I'd share this with anyone still interested in how this pass turns out.

    I found something that might clear the EKII. Here are some handwriting comparisons. There is an exact match to the EKII award line, on page 1 of the pass where his dogtag info is given. There is a not totally exact, but similar match on the dismissal page as well (compare "Flak" in the text above the dismissal signature with the others, and the 2 on the award and dismissal). The exact same handwriting is also found on page 2 of the pass where his eye and hair color etc. is listed. Unless it's conceivable none of this would have been entered into the pass during the war, this seems to prove the EKII is legitimate.

    This does beg the question why it was entered so late though, as he wasn't with the 17 Division since October of 1943. No doubt the original pass had the correct date for the EKII. But, if the EKII was entered late, it may make a person wonder if the other two could be of the same cloth, or as Glen says a postwar enhancement....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis

  10. #39

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    Quote by avenger View Post
    ...

    This does beg the question why it was entered so late though, as he wasn't with the 17 Division since October of 1943. ...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You are getting your units mixed up. He was with LW-Art.Rgt 17 in 1943 which was a component of Luftwaffen-Feld-Division 17, whereas the entry for the EK II is 17 Flak Division - a completely different unit.

    LW-Feld Division 17 - Luftwaffen-Feld-Division 17

    17 Flak Division - 17. Flak-Division

  11. #40

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    Hmmm. Thanks. The maze and mystery continues it seems. I hope not to further dubiousness, but rather to a better understanding of what he was doing.

    That would mean it's an error of some sort (which this pass does not need any more suspicion), as discrediting the EKII would discredit the dogtag entry on page one, and the personal info entries on page 2, and quite possibly the discharge info. Otherwise, one of the earlier unit entries from 1942 would need to place him in the 17. Flak-Division, which was in Stalino, which I believe is the Russian/Ukraine name of Donetsk during WWII. I wondered how he could have gotten an EK2 on the western front in 1942, so the eastern front makes that more sensible. That said, who gets pulled from the eastern front to chill in northern France before D-day? Doesn't make sense in the context of the pass as a whole.

    I'll have to dig a little deeper to find out what's going on. Hopefully I can make out some of the harder to read handwriting on the units page, to figure that out by tracing him backwards.

    Not being on the eastern front will certainly present some problems it seems.
    "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis

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