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war time red fleet shoulder boards?

Article about: Hi I found these shoulder boards with the tally. The size surprises me (long 10 cms, large 4 cms). Thank you for giving me your opinions guys. regards jean-sebastien

  1. #1

    Default war time red fleet shoulder boards?

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    Hi
    I found these shoulder boards with the tally. The size surprises me (long 10 cms, large 4 cms). Thank you for giving me your opinions guys.
    regards
    jean-sebastien

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  3. #2
    ?

    Default Re: war time red fleet shoulder boards?

    These are the 1940-43 pattern sleeve insignia for a RKKF Politruk (red stripe). Were they on a all-black backing, they would signify a Leytenant, which is equal to Enseigne de vaisseau de deuxième classe.

  4. #3

    Default Re: war time red fleet shoulder boards?

    Hi Makoff, thank you for your answer. I was quite sure this insignias were original but I was not able to determine their signification. Do you think RKKF politruk used this sleeve insignia with a gold star like others RKkF officers?

    Regards

    Jean sebastien

  5. #4

    Default Re: war time red fleet shoulder boards?

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    Hi Makoff,
    I believe the Tally is wartime because it is 3,5 cm large. Am I wrong? Can you translate the first three letters P.K.K? On my other Tally theses firts threeletters aren't written.
    regards

    jean sebastien

  6. #5
    ?

    Default Re: war time red fleet shoulder boards?

    Hello Jean Sebastien,

    1. All RKKF ranks (only from equivalent of the Quartier-maître de deuxième classe on) wore the same sleeve star badge in 1940-43, as the exact branch of service was shown by the rank stripes backing colour. The soviet equivalents of matelots et quartiers-maîtres wore no rank stripes. The officiers mariniers wore thin white stripes without backing. Their service branch was shown by the appropriate sleeve badges, as in most Navies of the world.
    2. The 35 mm wide cap tallies were used solely until 1943. Then until late 50-s the 32,5 mm wide tallies were worn along with those 35 mm wide.
    3. The letters R.K.K. mean "Raboche-Krestyanskuy Krasniy", i.e. "the Workers' and Peasants' Red". "Chernomorskiy" means "of the Black Sea". The whole inscription reads "The Workers' and Peasants' Black Sea Red Navy". The Soviet Navy bore the name "Raboche-Krestyanskuy Krasniy Flot" in 1918–1924 and 1937–1946. Your tally surely belongs to the latter period. And not every tally even at that time must have borne the letters R.K.K. There could be for instance the name of the ship on the tally etc.

    Cheers

    Sascha

  7. #6

    Default Re: war time red fleet shoulder boards?

    Thank you Sascha,
    I have only two last questions because there is only a few documentation about everyday RKKF uniforms:
    1- Are these politruk sleeve insignias only sewn on the bushlat or also on the dark blue standard serge to jumper uniform?

    2- were these stars sewn with this type of insignias?
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    best regards

    jean-sebastien

  8. #7
    ?

    Default Re: war time red fleet shoulder boards?

    This is a NCO's sleeve stars, they was worn by all NCO servicemans, in all kind of uniform, when the enlisted personnel use the red stars without bullion on the edge of the star. I have seen some war time images, where imprisoned POWs, removing their stars from the bushlats, due Ge4rmans mistakely shot some of them, being thought they are political commissars
    Regards,
    Dimas

    my Skype: warrelics

  9. #8
    ?

    Default Re: war time red fleet shoulder boards?

    Regards,
    Dimas

    my Skype: warrelics

  10. #9

    Default Re: war time red fleet shoulder boards?

    hi Dimas,
    what a fantastic photo!

    If this type of star was only worn by NCO servicemen, I undestand that my lieutnant sleeve rank insignias (red and gold stripes) were sewed on a bushlat without any star? am I right?

    If these rank insignias indicate a politruk, do they replace the traditional red star with gold hammer and sickle which identifies Politruk in other branchs of the soviet

    Sorry for all of this questions but the documentation about everyday uniforms of the RKKF is very poor. I did not find anything about politruks in RKKF. i started thinking that political commissars did not exist in the Red Flett.

    Best regards.

  11. #10
    ?

    Default Re: war time red fleet shoulder boards?

    About the rank:

    Знаки различия РККФ




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    Краснофлотец
    Red fleet sailor
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    Старший краснофлотец
    from November, 2 , 1940
    Name:  vmf41-03.jpg
Views: 470
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    Отделенный командир
    Platoon commander
    from November, 2 , 1940
    Starshina Ftoroi Stat'yi
    Cтаршина 2-й статьи



    Name:  vmf41-04.jpg
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    Cтаршина 1-й статьи
    from November, 2 , 1940
    Starshina Pervoii Stat'yi
    Name:  vmf41-05.jpg
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    Старшина
    from November, 2 , 1940
    Главный корабельный старшина
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    Мичман Mitchman
    Name:  35-ml_lejt.jpg
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    Младший лейтенант
    НКО № 166 от 20го августа
    от 20 августа 1937 года
    Junior Lieutenant , from August, 20th, 1937 year
    Name:  34-lejt.jpg
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    Лейтенант
    Lieutenant
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    Maroon stripe with white braid -Военюрист- Justice, Military jurist

    Yellow-Старший лейтенант
    Senior Lieutenant

    Name:  32-vrah_3.jpg
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    Green stripes, silver braid- Военврач 3-го ранга- Military doctor of 3rd rank
    Yellow- Капитан-лейтенант
    Captain-Lieutenant
    Name:  31-maj.jpg
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    Dark brown stripes- coastal artillery- Майор- Major
    (white braid- techical personnel)
    Ship crew:
    Капитан 3-го ранга
    Captain 3rd rank
    Name:  30-ing-kap_2.jpg
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    Silver braid with blue stripes:
    Инженер-капитан 2-го ранга (Airforces)

    Flying personnel: yellow bride with blue stripes
    Ship crew, yellow bride with base tunic's color stripes.
    Капитан 2-го ранга
    Captain of 2nd rank
    Name:  29-kap_1.jpg
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    Капитан 1-го ранга
    Name:  28-div_kom.jpg
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    Red stripe- political service
    Дивизионный комиссар- Divisional commissar
    up to Oct 13, 1942
    Флагман 2-го ранга
    Flagman of 2nd rank

    From 1940
    Контр-Адмирал
    Contr-admiral
    Name:  27-vice-adm.jpg
Views: 503
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    Флагман 1-го ранга
    Flagman of 1nd rank
    From 1940
    Вице-Адмирал
    Vice-admiral
    Name:  26-adm.jpg
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    Флагман флота 2-го ранга
    Fleet's Flagman of 2-nd rank


    from 1940 y:

    Адмирал
    Admiral
    Name:  25-adm_f.jpg
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    Флагман флота 1-го ранга
    Fleet's Flagman of 1-st rank

    from 1940 y:

    Адмирал флота
    Fleet's Admiral








    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Regards,
    Dimas

    my Skype: warrelics

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