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real or fake prototype belt buckle?

Article about: this is my first post, so bear with me! i was digging through an old wooden box of my dad's & came across a belt buckle. i've spent the last 3 hours of my evening trying to find one like

  1. #1

    Question real or fake prototype belt buckle?

    this is my first post, so bear with me!
    i was digging through an old wooden box of my dad's & came across a belt buckle. i've spent the last 3 hours of my evening trying to find one like it online to no avail. i have found reproductions, but NONE look like this one on the back for the loop or catch. the belt loop is reverse of the fakes i've seen, and has a pin instead of a catch. it measures about 58mm diameter and will hold a belt of about 40mm width. i'd like to know if i have the lucrative none-known-to-exist prototype or a fake.

    here's the story behind it. my dad was in the Navy stationed in Germany as an engineer on a PT boat from around 1951-1953 on the Rhine River Patrol...same time Kennedy was and on the same type boat (they never met). Kennedy's was PT-109 and my dad's was PT-103...I THINK (i don't feel like digging the pics out to make sure). while he was there, he purchased 2 guns from a German Officer (i don't know if he was retired or not) and sent them back home. one was an immaculate 1915 Luger, and a "K" suffix (WWII wartime production) Walther PPK. the Luger was shipped back as a dummy w/a lead plug in the barrel that he put in. the PPK was shipped hidden in an oil drum. here's where the buckle comes in. the PPK was purchased with the original leather holster, leather belt, and buckle. all that's left from the oil deteriorating the leather is most of the holster and buckle. he said the belt fell apart when he tried cleaning it up after he came home. he stopped before destroying the holster, too. i can confirm the oil...it's still seeping from the holster.

    that's the story he told me. he's not around anymore (passed on '05) to get any other details. i can say he was NEVER one to tell tall tales. the couple stories i thought he made up to sound good in his days prior to me being brought into this world...i found out were true by my aunt, to my amazement. he never lied to me about anything. at times, i wish he left out details i had no need or want to hear, but that's how he was. i miss him a ton, but he's left me some treasures i'm proud to have (like these 2 guns) and remember him by. i have no reason to believe this buckle is fake, but i'm no expert. he said it came here with the gun...i believe him. is this a treasure?
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  3. #2

    Default Re: real or fake prototype belt buckle?

    It's a well known fake. I believe someone produced this, published it in a book, so they could pass it as an original for there own financial gain. Atleast that's what I've been lead to believe.

    Also, I believe this appeared in the 70's.
    Last edited by youthcollector1; 07-24-2013 at 05:41 PM.

  4. #3

    Default Re: real or fake prototype belt buckle?

    Yeah, about as bad as you can get for fantasy items. Lot of veterans bought things when they got home and they get mixed in.

  5. #4

    Default Re: real or fake prototype belt buckle?

    thanks for the info! just surprised i couldn't find a pic of this particular one online or i wouldn't have had to ask!
    i'm still happy...educated a bit more, and still have the pistols. the Luger is the real treasure anyway (99%+ cond.)!

  6. #5

    Default Re: real or fake prototype belt buckle?

    Hello and a big welcome, now the buckle, it is the "Walther" fake, there has been some good discussions in the past as it ye or na, the buckle in fact is a fake. Sorry mate, sometimes I wish it was genuine, would be a nice buckle to have in ones collection
    Last edited by Ben Evans; 07-24-2013 at 12:08 PM.
    Ben

  7. #6

    Default Re: real or fake prototype belt buckle?

    sorry dude. its a no go.

  8. #7

    Default Re: real or fake prototype belt buckle?

    Also mate moved it to the buckle fourm, you posted it in the helmet forum
    Ben

  9. #8

    Default Re: real or fake prototype belt buckle?

    As the guys have said, it's fake. Well, more a fantasy than fake as its not recreating a real buckle.

    Saying that, as it's from your dad it's still amazing for sentimental value. He brought it back, so I'd cherish it...

    I've heard stories from vets that everything was remade from 1945 onwards to sell to occupying soldiers. Money was hard to come by for the locals and everything from assault badges, medal to daggers was remade on original machines, or assembled from old stock to sell. It's just what they did to put food on the table... I'm interested in this immediate post war period, I like even denazified buckles as it tells a story. It's all about the history...

  10. #9
    ?

    Default

    Hello Lenny. It is a reproduction not a fantasy item. The real ones are the size of a regular SS officers buckle. I took this photo off WFA and I think it was from the Marc V collection or the late John Paperas collection. It would be one of the most expensive TR buckles and I would estimate one would bring $10,000-15,000. A Bakelite SS EM buckle is the only buckle I can think of that might be more valuable.
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  11. #10

    Default Re: real or fake prototype belt buckle?

    I had the same buckle when I was about 13 years old, lol...This reproduction has been around for a number of years...
    cheers, Glenn

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