SS RZM marked belt

**Larboard** · 02-11-2016, 11:02 PM

Thx Kirby, that's probably what it was. I just researched it on the site, and it seems even some genuine buckles had the double circles. My bad... I think what happened is between the buckle info and a tornister that was posted around the same time with bad/fake markings very similar to this belt, something crossed upstairs... and I understood it to mean that SS in a circle was suspect.

Any idea why the SS and RZM are swapped between these two different belts?

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 02-11-2016 11:02 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**KRISSE** · 02-11-2016, 11:49 PM

I don't know. But the other marked belt shown on the picture is on a belt that's makermarked and dated 1943 while the RZM marking is, RZM in the first place, but also marked 1941...
So, good reason enough to think that it was placed there post war.

**kirby** · 02-12-2016, 12:29 AM

I remember about 15 years ago Manion's sold several SS leather stamps. They went for a lot more than I thought they would bring. That has always made me a little suspect of SS stamped leather. I don't think any of the stamps were like yours.

**KRISSE** · 02-12-2016, 08:56 AM

Anyway, it doesn't matter anymore. Like I said, I'm trying to sell this belt at WAF.
Moderator asked to make a topic of it to have it discussed. So I did. But as expected, some 'specialists' burned my belt by saying 'fake'... so there goes my belt.
It's really frustrating!
I bought the belt couple of years ago from Peter Lukasz (Stockholm Militaria Antiques) who is a good source imo, so I bought the belt with good confidence.

The belt was posted in the past here: SS EM/NCO belt buckle. Real or fake?

**lebus12** · 02-12-2016, 11:40 AM

One of mine

**lebus12** · 02-12-2016, 11:56 AM

The only problem : we don't know when the RZM was marked on belts.
For the other items, all the markings are from before the war.

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 02-12-2016, 05:14 PM

by KRISSE

Anyway, it doesn't matter anymore. Like I said, I'm trying to sell this belt at WAF.
Moderator asked to make a topic of it to have it discussed. So I did. But as expected, some 'specialists' burned my belt by saying 'fake'... so there goes my belt.
It's really frustrating!
I bought the belt couple of years ago from Peter Lukasz (Stockholm Militaria Antiques) who is a good source imo, so I bought the belt with good confidence.

The belt was posted in the past here: SS EM/NCO belt buckle. Real or fake?

Peter has good knowledge but he does not know everything, like any of us. In his book on SS militaria there was / is several items pictured and labeld as original which are well know (and referenced) fakes. Just an example the SS officer buckle marked GWL. This is a well known and highly documented fake originating from the late 60's. Still shown as an original in his book... So, like with any of us, you should allow him to make mistakes.

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 02-12-2016, 05:18 PM

by lebus12

The only problem : we don't know when the RZM was marked on belts.
For the other items, all the markings are from before the war.

RZM xx/yy SS or SS xx/yy RZM : From at least 1934 to 1943. On SS buckles from at least 1935 to 1944.

**KRISSE** · 02-12-2016, 05:19 PM

by Jean Pierre Redeuilh

Peter has good knowledge but he does not know everything, like any of us. In his book on SS militaria there was / is several items pictured and labeld as original which are well know (and referenced) fakes. Just an example the SS officer buckle marked GWL. This is a well known and highly documented fake originating from the late 60's. Still shown as an original in his book... So, like with any of us, you should allow him to make mistakes.

Okay, Jean Pierre, but now you are again refering to other items that are known to be fake. But you and Mr. Ferrari on WAF are still not able to show a reference
that indicates this marking is fake. You both are constantly saying fake fake fake but you have no prove or what so ever. And in the meanwhile, my belt stays burned...

What makes you think or how can you prove that this markings are fake???

**Jean Pierre Redeuilh** · 02-12-2016, 05:27 PM

by KRISSE

Anyway, it doesn't matter anymore. Like I said, I'm trying to sell this belt at WAF.
Moderator asked to make a topic of it to have it discussed. So I did. But as expected, some 'specialists' burned my belt by saying 'fake'... so there goes my belt.
It's really frustrating!
I bought the belt couple of years ago from Peter Lukasz (Stockholm Militaria Antiques) who is a good source imo, so I bought the belt with good confidence.

The belt was posted in the past here: SS EM/NCO belt buckle. Real or fake?

And I strongly believe your belt has a postwar added marking which translates by not original SS belt. You should maybe try to find at least ONE 100% genuine SS leather belt which was ordered (so produced) in 1941 by the SS through the RZM.... Just my two cents to begin....