Chained SS dagger opinions

[command450]

This dagger was bought back in the early 80's. it was originally missing the chain.the dagger and the chained scabbard(with the square link only) were together,but rest of the chain links were missing. back then we found a chain and I put it on. what is your opinions on the dagger now? what is your opinions on the chain itself? and also the boker blade?

[Adrian Stevenson]

Obviously, the Boker is a 1933 pattern dagger later upgraded with the new 1936 pattern scabbard. This was an option for the thrifty SS man to buy to save purchasing a complete new dagger. The blade looks OK to me.

The chain I do have concerns about. I have double clicked on the pics to enlarge them, but I am still concerned about the detail to the background of the skulls. Overall the detail looks soft and the links very flat. Sorry, but I think it is bad.

Cheers, Ade.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Please compare this one of mine, seen here on the left, to see what I mean.

[command450]

thanks Adrian, I have been wondering about it. The blade is gorgeous, I cant find anything wrong with the scabbard. but....given the chain was never original to this scabbard, that was my main concern.

Were all the chains originally painted black in the reccesses? because I swear I have seen quite a few like this one in the past...

[operaman]

Do the chains usually have some sort of makers mark or number on them.I can readily see the deference between the two chains, when shown up close together there is no doubt.My God so much to learn..

[command450]

it actually has the mark on the back of one of the links.I think I will take some more detailed pics,regardless, for future refference.check out the pics on the internet of the chained SS' out there..............


look at the size of the eyes on all of them out there and how some of them vary(like we see here,between these two),I think there are others out there like the one I posted! I dont want to single out other peoples stuff,by copying their personal pics. I think I see what I see, if you know what I mean!

[85ronnies]

Sorry to say but the chain is fake, like Ade says ther is not enough fine detail in the skulls and the lack of pebbeling to the background also the two top links are not bevelled correctly,
hope this helps Ronnie

[command450]

Sorry to say but the chain is fake, like Ade says ther is not enough fine detail in the skulls and the lack of pebbeling to the background also the two top links are not bevelled correctly,
hope this helps Ronnie

yes I would agree, and I appreciate the input from everyone


I am just wondering whats the best route to go with that nice blade,its such a shame she lost her original chain :[ but what are you going to do? just leave it as it is or try to find a non chained scabbard for it and ofcourse good luck on that one ,eh!

[85ronnies]

yes I would agree, and I appreciate the input from everyone


I am just wondering whats the best route to go with that nice blade,its such a shame she lost her original chain :[ but what are you going to do? just leave it as it is or try to find a non chained scabbard for it and ofcourse good luck on that one ,eh!

I would leave the chain on for the time being, chains do occasionally come up but as you probably know, "not very often"
cheers Ronnie

[big ned]

Here's some info courtesey of Mr. Bruce Petrin on germandressdaggers.com . There is some interesting facts contained therein.



Dagger Information – SS 1936 Chained Dagger

In late 1936 Himmler introduced a new chain hanger for the existing officers daggers and for new officers, a new style dagger for wear, as well as old guard NCO’s and SS members who had joined prior to January 1933.

There are over five pages of documentation that the chain would be issued and not one document stating anything about a new dagger production. Yet, common sense will dictate that new officers would be entering the SS post 1936 and with that said, it’s obvious that the new style dagger was produced.

The later produced dagger was similar to the 1933 SS dagger but with the addition of a chained suspension hanger and a scabbard with a central mount fitting decorated with swastikas and a pebbled background. Crossguards and scabbard fittings, as well as the chain, were all solid nickel. The later made dagger post 1937 era dagger has poor quality base metals with nickel plated fittings. Scabbard finishes can range from Oxide Finnish with a clear lacquer to black lead based paint.

The chain was designed by Karl Diebitsch and comprised of octagonal plates embossed with the SS deaths head and SS runes. This had two meanings to it; the first is the skull and crossbones to signify a secret society. The second is the Sig Rune that is the power of Good over evil. The chains suspension clip was embossed with an ancient Germanic motif called "Wotans Knot".

The reverse of the plates was stamped with the SS proof mark of two intertwined "sig" runes.

There are two different style of chains:

SS Type 1 Chain - that has NO burnishing on the centre band and plates of the chain its self, as well a DRGM marked clip under the Woton Knot. The last two connector rings are square as they enter the Woton Knot.

SS Type 2 Chain - has the dark burnishing on the plates and the centre band, and the Woton knot is solid, with the last two-connector rings angled to fit into the Woton knot.

The SS Chained daggers had no maker’s marks on newly issued daggers post 1937, on period upgrades that consisting of well over 18,000 officers and old guard, these daggers simply had the centre band added and the upper fitting adjusted. Then the chain was added. These will display the early style trademarks and in many cases the SS officer’s numbers.

Again there is NO direct documentation that the blade should not be marked and an unmarked blade does NOT constitute textbook at all. It’s a fact that 95% of all reproductions exhibit no trademark on the blade, as well as post war parts daggers made in the 1960’s have NO trademark.

The new-chained style dagger could only be purchased through official channels and was only initially worn with the black SS uniform. In 1943, officers of the Waffen SS were given

Permission to wear the chained dress dagger with their field grey walk out dress uniform along with a Heer (Army) style Portapee due to their military status. At this time they were also allowed to purchase the chained dagger form official RZM sales outlets.

Production of the dagger discontinued in at the end of 1942.

Regards, Ned.