Fraudsters usually target daggers in attractive saleble condition, this example is not.
The SS-number research project file reveals a complex history regarding this officer's award of the Ehrendolch. A fraudster would need Ross K's research file (not just an SS-DAL) to determine that the Roehm Ehrendolch was awarded to this particular SS officer. Would, or could, your average fraudster have even been bothered to ferret out the detailed information painstakingly uncovered by a highly experienced professional researcher? I doubt it very much. Jmho.
09-01-2015 10:20 PM
Dastvrijheid, fraudsters target beat up pieces because it is the only way to make them valuable. This is a simple truth. I have seen many many humped up daggers, both beat up and nice condition.
Do you realize that you can find Haertel's SS number with a simple google search? It's not a secrete look for yourself, he is halfway down the list.....
And just because he may not have an ehrendolch listed as an award, this is no matter as it was often left out, like many other awards, the records were not perfect.
This was a fraudster's job. You can believe as you want, but this is a clear issue. No one can seem to explain why the reverse of the lower guard, where the numbers are has spots? The front doesn't appear to? Why would this be? Why do those spots not appear within the stamped numbers? I am now finished with this post, but this dagger will never sell as attributed to an experienced collector.
Bob Iqbal called and told me that he sold this dagger to the owner, and the Jo-Jo turned it out of the weeds several years back. My apologies to the owner for any stress that it causes him, over my posts. In spite of the hard life that this edged weapon has had over the last 70 years, the one thread of life that still remains, is the number linking it to a historic past.
All I can say is these stamps are real and a friend of mine owned it for decades. I had someone asking for a numbered dagger so I had him pull it out. In hand no-one would have any question to it, it is real and absolutely no question in my mind to it. I will be very happy to refund the buyers money so I can sell it more or keep it, I will have to decide what to do with it.
PS- It is really sad, I can understand people skepticism at times and it is healthy in our field of collecting. However, there are absolutely original pieces that get shot down which is really a tragedy to the item and history.
The question that I have is looking at this cross guard you can easily see that something is wrong with the composition of the guard, I have many of close up pictures of guards and none look like that in close up mode.........seeing pictures of the guard from the inside where the number is stamped will tell a story also as to my hunch.
As for obtaining stamps to punch numbers, they can be obtain easily.
If I am wrong about the cross guard so be it. but my gut feeling tells me no.
I am not trying to make this a bad dagger just stating something that does not look right and this is echoed buy other collectors who wish to stay silent as to protect.
I also work with metal in my business daily and see the effect of heat.
Anyhow I said my piece.
Thanks Bob. Sorry you had to be dragged into this. Shame this thread contains 4 muddied pages of knee jerk responses. I'm reminded why many senior collectors/dealers distance themselves completely from these forums. But I have also learned immensely from the knowledge of many of our members who compose educated and informed posts that we all benefit from.
Last edited by seventyeighth; 09-02-2015 at 06:15 PM.
I have no hard feelings from anyone, it just surprised me. I am also very sceptical of stampings and engravings. I like the patina on this piece in hand, I like the font and I know where it resided for decades. Secondly, I sold it cheaply since I am never smart enough to research numbers myself. I also bought it at a reaosnable price since since the former owner never researched it either. If I had known, the price would have been much greater.
I do enjoy the forums althoguh there is enough foolish politicking that goes on as well as informed and uninformed opinons. Overall, I have made life long friends and had a lot of fun!
PS- Shameless plug if it is OK Collector to Collector Militaria | Honesty, Quality, and Commitment.
I mean no disrespect to anyone, I was just stating an observation which raised a flag to myself.... Of course we wish every item shown on these forums to be good. I believe its to inform and educate no matter how long one has been in the hobby.... and mistakes are made on judgements also, no one is an expert. We constantly learn off each other and try to preserve items to their original state so we can enjoy this hobby.
I myself have been down the road of negative feed back on items which good or bad becomes a debate.
I myself mostly just read/learn and stay on the side lines as one knows there is always some politics in this hobby.
Bob I think you are one of the good guys, you have integrity in this hobby.
Also I have not taken any shots at anyone and I don't think I deserve them taken at me as they don't know me or my background.