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Full Rohm SS dienstdolch by Eickhorn questioned

Article about: This one is currently up for sale for \\$ 20,000- dollars. I have had several early SA Eickhorn dagger who all had their crossguard marke with the H E ( Hause Eickhorn) markings on the inside.

  1. #1
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    Default Full Rohm SS dienstdolch by Eickhorn questioned

    This one is currently up for sale for $ 20,000- dollars.
    I have had several early SA Eickhorn dagger who all had their crossguard marke with the H E ( Hause Eickhorn) markings on the inside.
    Same time period as this SS dagger, little squirel close to the guard.
    Im asking myself following question:
    Why would Eickhorn use crossguards from a third party when they have a perfect one made in their own house?
    Why is there a gap visisble between the blade and the crossguard?
    I think its strange that an SA dagger, build in exactly the same time period is build with more craftmanship like this SS dagger.
    No gaps between blade and guard, and having the H. E. textbook guards.

    What do you Gents think of this expensive SS Rohm dagger?

    Ger
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  3. #2

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    Very good points Ger. I would share your concerns. I certainly would not drop $20,000 on it.

    Cheers, Ade.
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  4. #3

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    At the very least, I would think that the guards have been replaced.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  5. #4

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    The Guards marked " A R ".... were "used".. by Eickhorn..along with the common " P & A"...although the AR...not frequently seen.... but was used by the Eickhorn Firm.

    Why were they used for such a prestigeous dagger of Honor?.....I dont know..and it also makes sense what Gerrit is saying about the blade shoulders to crossguard fit. Most common Early Eickhorn SA daggers would have an area of recess under the lower guard for the blade shoulders to fit into...leaving no gaps.

    I am also seeing the the Rohm dedication sitting well below the blade spine..Just an observation. These photos are drowned out by the flash of the camera and for myself to acquire an example like this I would like to have an in hand inspection and to see the Dedication etch process under an eye loop.

    For $20,000??................Not for me..not in this condition. Making an investment of this type requires more than 3 washed out photos. Just my opinion and observations. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  6. #5
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    I've seen this dagger posted several years ago with the Big Red 1 veteran marked scabbard. It then showed most of the grip missing, which now seems to have been restored and not disclosed. The heavy grip restoration would explain the poor fit to the crossguards.

    -wagner-

  7. #6
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    What bothers me is the fact that all the early benchmarked SA's crossguards used on blades with the little logo close to the guard, that i encoutered, are marked: H.E. ( hause Eickhorn)
    Larry states that Eickhorn did use third party crossgurds too, but the question is: did they do it that early?
    And did they do it on a SS honor dagger? when they didnt used them on the standard SA ones?

    Ger

  8. #7

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    There is something else that must be taken into consideration..in the 1st photo..the absence of the accent grooving on the lower crossguard is quite visual and shallow.....compared to the 3rd photo the accent grooving is all there....so what is it..2 different lower crossguards?.....which leaves me to think the guard without the grooving is a junk piece......surely a better guard would of been used for such an honorable dagger. The upper guard looks ok...for now.
    IMO parts dagger. ..... OR 2 different daggers?...$10,000 each = $20,000... Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  9. #8

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    True, Larry...I'm also still of the opinion that the guard has been swapped. These honour daggers were all hand fitted and worked. I can't imagine how or why this one would have left Eickhorn in this state. And at risk for adding to Ned's tally board, I have to say that the wood fit on this one is not especially good-especially so when talking about a presentation piece like this would have been. Whoever assembled this parts dagger got pretty lucky in finding a lower guard that fit not Too badly with the grip that he had, but the Blade, unfortunately for Him-but fortunately for we Collectors-did not fit the newly installed guard at all well. If it Had, it may well have slipped through the nets and been thought of as genuine(and 20 grand to boot). It is likely that someone took the blade off a run of the mill Model 33 and tried putting an inscribed blade on it to make it something it never was.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  10. #9

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    and to each their own producer who had their own specs..in size and fitting.....Eickhorn of course did not make junk. Sharp studying eyes will see these differences. Not all blade shoulders and lower crossguards were made to fit each other..which tang markings and crossguard foundry marks comes into play when authenticating $20,000 examples for sale. For this price I would want a private viewing between the owner and the buyer.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  11. #10
    FRO
    FRO is offline
    ?

    Default Comments from the owner of the SS Full Rohm being discussed

    Quote by Larry C View Post
    and to each their own producer who had their own specs..in size and fitting.....Eickhorn of course did not make junk. Sharp studying eyes will see these differences. Not all blade shoulders and lower crossguards were made to fit each other..which tang markings and crossguard foundry marks comes into play when authenticating $20,000 examples for sale. For this price I would want a private viewing between the owner and the buyer.
    Dad enlisted in the army when the war broke out. He was battlefield commissioned, wounded, received the purple heart and bronze star (among other honors), reassigned to the Army of Occupation after recuperating from his injuries. In Munich he was in charge of collecting arms from all Germans and redistributing them to the former occuppied countries. I can only assume he came across this dagger at that time. It has been in my family ever since I can remember and I'm 57. I'm the youngest of 5. My older brothers recall the dagger since they were young. It has NEVER BEEN ALTERED with the exception (as described on Mr. Wittmann's website) of the original grip having been repaired then replaced. The original one was twisted and broken at the top 1/3. Mr. W has IN HAND AUTHENTICATED this dagger and it is now on consignment with him.

    The Big Red One decal has been on the scabbard ever since I was a child. I remember scratching it against the inside of a footlocker it was kept in and accidentally scraping off much of the red 1.

    After mom died in 2002 I inherited it, kept it a year or two then put it on ebay. I had no knowledge of its importance. The price skyrocketed to around $7 or 8K I think before ebay pulled the listing. Several bidders and watchers contacted me and some were kind and honest enough to inform me of what I had. One of them offered me $16K for it. I decided to keep it and see if the value would increase. Along the way I sent it to Mr. W. to make sure it was the real thing. He authenticated it then and does so again on his website.

    I appreciate the open minded comments written on this thread and laugh at the others. If you are not sure of something why not simply ask? You could have emailed me from the information you had from the ad.

    Mike

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