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Haul of the year! SS Chained Dagger, First Pattern Luftwaffe Dagger, M1902 Krag Bayonet

Article about: I have seen a lot of unmarked blades, especially chained

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Haul of the year! SS Chained Dagger, First Pattern Luftwaffe Dagger, M1902 Krag Bayonet

    Hey Guys, I finally got the SS dagger taken down to her bare bones (Thanks to Larry C for his help). He instructed me to take very detailed photos so you guys can see, the tang is marked 25 which is an unknown maker. The crossguard and the lower guard are marked P A.
    Ryan
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    Last edited by Larry C; 07-24-2013 at 10:46 AM.

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  3. #52

    Default Re: Haul of the year! SS Chained Dagger, First Pattern Luftwaffe Dagger, M1902 Krag Bayonet

    Why did you want to take it apart? Whatever you do, do Not tighten the nut on hard-just use your fingers. So many grips are split by being tightened down solid and then along comes a humid day and Crack!...always best to leave it just abit on the looser side.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  4. #53
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    Default Re: Haul of the year! SS Chained Dagger, First Pattern Luftwaffe Dagger, M1902 Krag Bayonet

    I made sure not to tighten it William. I just wanted to see it for later reference and so i can see the mark on the tang and the crossguards. I promise you this will not be opened again. Just a one time ordeal.
    Ryan

  5. #54

    Default Re: Haul of the year! SS Chained Dagger, First Pattern Luftwaffe Dagger, M1902 Krag Bayonet

    Quite superb deal.... Jealous? me? Well, yes....

  6. #55

    Default Re: Haul of the year! SS Chained Dagger, First Pattern Luftwaffe Dagger, M1902 Krag Bayonet

    I spoke with Ryan last night and before any attempt was made in taking it down..I echoed the same questions also. Ryans answer was one of high calibre which is what i am used to hearing from seasoned collectors. ......." I would like to see the markings inside that would further help identify for reference reasons these unknown characteristics" (end quote)
    I was surprised at his answer coming from a young guy his age to even have these kind of thoughts. After further discussion which if it wasnt for the ideas of Authors to expose these hidden secrets in authentication.....there would be no reference to refer to. Yet most of us still rely on these Reference books to help identify producer names through a different angle. An identity can be found in other ways and means.
    Although... the forge marking "A 25" can not be found at least in any of my library reference..this identity will remain unknown of who forged the blade or if it was forged by the actual producer. The closest I can come to in Forge markings is "A 24" for the WKC firm. Not close enough.
    One thing is for sure we are one step closer. There are many opinions and thoughts to possible identities of the unmarked blade..which stem from Font size and depth to crossguard styles. None have been proven.
    I told Ryan..to document by photo as much as possible for future reference so as not to open this again. I have no issues with opening a dagger as there is no written rule against it..if it is for furthering which has been stated above. I trust Ryans judgement as he has proven himself in many areas of the WRF. I find it encouraging that some of our esteemed youth here will carry this knowledge to the next generation of collectors as us old farts..will not be here to do it. I hope I dont end up on a front porch somewhere telling kids to get of my front lawn...not unless Im Clint Eastwood Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  7. #56
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    Default Re: Haul of the year! SS Chained Dagger, First Pattern Luftwaffe Dagger, M1902 Krag Bayonet

    Damn kids get off my yard (whips out the m1 garand) best part of the movie! Thank you again for your help, this is surely an unknown, unmarked, ss dagger, she will be unknown till the vaults of files have been found to debunk this age old mystery. The good thing about this dagger it can be researched forever till it is found, "and hopefully it will". I'm so glad i took part in this section of the militaria collecting hobby, its just so interesting and so many different variants.
    Thanks Again
    Ryan

  8. #57
    ?

    Default Re: Haul of the year! SS Chained Dagger, First Pattern Luftwaffe Dagger, M1902 Krag Bayonet

    Larry, what do you mean END UP on the front porch!!!!, does'nt the rocker beckon anymore????? :-)

  9. #58

    Default

    Some research has uncovered the Identity of the "A" within the circle 25...which comes back to an SA Producer named "Bismark". This information was found in Johnsons Reference books Volume 7 pg 23.
    Let it be known although we do not know the identity of the Chained SS maker without a logo...that the Identity of Bismark should NOT be applied as the actual identity of the Chained SS but the identity of a Forge maker that made and supplied blades to various other producers. There is quite a list of Blade forgers seen throughout many Blade tangs of the SA and SS.
    Depending upon the producer and how large they were..some producers who did not have the means to actually produce blades or did not have the production time to do so..ordered blades from other producers and applied themselves the Motto and logo etch to the blades prior to dagger assembly.
    Who is to say that it "could" or "could not" be the identity of the Chained SS..but that would be left to further research and a compilation of more of the same Forge marks on "logoless" Chained examples. Even with that it still does not prove the identity as many Chained SS dagger blades were ordered from other producers.
    A close study will reveal over the years who the identity really is for these Coveted Beauties.....Still small pieces of the puzzle continue to be put together............in time,, much will be revealed what the end of the war has destroyed in documentation..through further study.
    Its not often we see tang markings on Chained logoless examples..but a step in the right direction and closer to an identity. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #59

    Default

    Why does the SS dagger not have a maker's mark on the rear of the blade? I do not know much about the SS Daggers and I want to know if many are like that?? Awesome find!
    Thaddeus

  11. #60

    Default

    To this day that question still remains a mystery..why theses daggers were made this way. Not knowing for sure but the details in the characteristics seems to point to a few makers that are thought of producing these. What is more of a mystery to me is even the finest of presentation daggers..have a logo on the reverse side of the blade..which leaves me to think the same for the Chained SS..but that is an anomoly of its own..or just the SS wanting it that way? Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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