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Hopes on a SS dagger...

Article about: by Feuerbach Well I just got back, and Im gutted. Turns out the bloke has two daggers for sale; a SS and a SA, The SS dagger is a plain horrible fake, told him these were for sale everywhere

  1. #1

    Default Hopes on a SS dagger...

    Just bumped into an antiques dealer in the shop who knows I collect military bits and bobs. Turns out he has bought a SS dagger last week for 50 euros, but badly damaged. Turns out the last owner has crudely removed the eagle and SS medialion on the grip.
    He insured me it is an original, and is willing to swop for some of my (non military) gear.
    We have a appointment for tomorrow morning, as he did not have the dagger with him, but I'm already nervous! I just so hope it is in fact an original, and I can get it for a good trade!
    Been staring at the threads on this forum for ages, about how to spot a good one, so fingers crossed for tomorrow. I never owned an original SS dagger before, and I so much want one!
    It'll be a great disappointment if it turns out to be another fake....
    If its any good I'll post the pictures here tomorrow. Now I'm of to look at two German casses; one PF 60 box, and a Stgr24 box.

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  3. #2

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    I have to say Fuerbach you did the right thing by reading through the threads..as it will be your eyes only that has seen this dagger ..so truley it is up to your discression..of its authenticity. I hope you can snap a few photos too while your there. I know the man said he insures you its original..but..from what you learned here..is that .."Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see"...so I am hopeful for the best outcome for you. Looking forward to some pics when you get the dagger. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  4. #3

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    "Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see" very good advice,best of luck with this.

    Jon

  5. #4

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    I once took a roadtrip to a antique mall that was three hours away from my home, and when leaving I was informed about a gentleman who was a vet and owned a black SS LAH tunic and a ss visor. I called him while driving home, and he agreed to email me pictures of all his items within 48 hours. The excitement that I felt while waiting for the pictures is indescribable; I know exactly how you're feeling. When I finally got the images, however, I was absolutely crushed as all the items were clearly fakes, even though he told me he brought them back while serving in Germany.
    Lesson to be learned from my experience, don't get too excited in these type of situation. 9 times out of 10 the item as well as the story are utter crap.
    Last edited by youthcollector1; 09-14-2013 at 05:19 PM.

  6. #5

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    Very true words, I'll just have to wait till tomorrow and see with my own eyes and hands. Thanks to the forum I know what to look for, but I'm affraid a very good copy will still fool me. I just simply haven't got the experience on the daggers. But I'll be there tomorrow, and hopefully it is wurth the trip.
    I'll bring my phone with me so if it is a fake I cam make pictures and I'll show you how it looks.
    Now I'm still waiting for the bloke to show up with the two wooden boxes, he's late...grrrrr.

  7. #6

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    Well I just got back, and Im gutted. Turns out the bloke has two daggers for sale; a SS and a SA, The SS dagger is a plain horrible fake, told him these were for sale everywhere for 20 euros, and he offered me the thing for 15 euros. No thanks I said.
    Now the other dagger is a good one, and in very good condition. Its a late war M7/83 SA dagger, by Richard Plümacher. No chipping or missing paint on the scabberd, but......somebody has removed both the insignia. What a awfull thing to do! And I guess there's not a chance in hell to find them either for a nice price, so the dagger has lost most of its value. The guy wants to trade it with some of my stuff, and a quick calculation is that I end up paying 400 euros for the dagger. Maybe I can knock it down a bit, but it all sounds to much for this mutilated SA dagger. I was thinking more in terms of 100 euros, but he was not having anything of that.
    What would the dagger be wurth without the eagle and the SA medaillon? Is 400 euros a fare price, or simply way to much?
    The bloke will phone me this week, as I told him I have to think about it.

  8. #7

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    Hi Feuerbach..well first you done well with identifying the SS as being fake...Good job!!....the SA with it being a Late RZM type and in the condition its in..IMO would not be worth your time to invest in. I feel 400eu is way too much as you can get a near mint Late SA for the same price if you like the Late period daggers. SA grips are hard to find....IMO in the condtion its in without seeing the blade..$250 US.

    The Grip, crossguards....and pommels on any dagger are the "Face of the dagger"..without the Face to see the character and beauty..its just another common blade. Your choice...but not one for my collection. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  9. #8

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    Thank you very much Larry, that makes sense to me. I must say the blade, and all the other parts are in very good condition, no rust, dents or damage, except for the insignia thats been removed. It has been done with a sharp tool, so on the top SA mediallon the wood is also dented where they flipped out the circle. This would have been a very nice dagger if they just left it alone. And the owner has no clue what happend to the missing parts, probaly chucked away.
    To show you how little the guy knows about this matter, he told me he was planning to flip out the insignia of the fake SS dagger, and glue them into the SA dagger, to make it complete again. Then he found out the size and shape was different, so he simply glued it back on the fake SS dagger.
    Pitty nice stuff ends up in hands of people who destroy items without knowing what they are doing.
    But anyway; he told me he bought the SA dagger in Germany, and payed 50 euros for it. I believe his story, and offered to double his money with my 100 euros bid, that he did not except. he was thinking more like 500 euros (somebody must have told him it was wurth gold!), and his final bid was to trade it for 400 euros of my antiques. I'm not going to do the trade, but as you said it might well be wurth 250 euros I'll raise my bid to 200 euros.
    However, it will always be a 'parts dagger', even if I find the missing parts to complete it, or end up stripping it down and selling the parts.
    Thanks again Larry for your help.
    As I forgot my phone I didn't make any pictures, but when he comes by this week I'll take some.

  10. #9

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    Larry is right about the price, i recently saw a nice SA dagger for sale in a Berlin dealers for 425 euros!..
    It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.



    I'm Spartacus, not really i'm Paul!...

  11. #10
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    Pity...
    My guess is that the insignia was removed in post-war Germany for a few different reasons, I'm sure you can think of them. De-nazification was practiced on items that individuals may have owned and wanted to keep after the war without getting in trouble or ridiculed for owning . So, if this man got it from there, this would make sense.
    I agree with Larry regarding the price of $250. You could part it out and make a little profit. As is, it's 90% complete but the 10% is critical. I would pass this one up if I were you. These late war SA's are easily had , if you simply want one for display. I recommend putting some time in looking for a nice early model. They are a bit more expensive, but most def worth it, IMO! Good luck, bro! I hope you make a decision you will be happy with
    Dean

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