RZM 1196/38 SS dagger.................... .
Hey guys, Im a complete newbe with collecting antique weapons but I have been searching for a German ss dagger for quite a while now and I have found one for sale about two hours drive from me in australia witch would save me alot of money and hassles trying to import one from over seas as I would have to pay import tax if Im even aloud to keep it as long as I fill out all the paper work correctly. So with all that in mind I wonder if you guys can let me know if this dagger is worth the nearly $3000 US he is asking as I have seen much nicer RZM SS daggers online in much better condition then this one for somewhat less than that. I really have my concerns about the condition of the scabbard or sheath and the pommel nut and also the colour of the handle?? I hope the pictures are ok, thank you ................... .
07-03-2014 12:14 AM
Hello Rusty, Unfortunately, I would not value this one anywhere near $3000. From what I can see, it was made by Ed Wüsthof but it's got loads of condition problems. It's a later issue and is made with plated fittings which, of course, are beginning to flake and peel as so many of them do. The pommel nut is badly beaten up which means that it has been dismantled Many times. The grip is in bad condition and shows what looks to be a large repair of some sort near the guard. The sheath, of course, is of the later painted type and is in low grade condition with chipping and open rust spotting. The blade, too, looks to have been badly brushed down and cleaned on numerous occasions all of which adds together to a pretty much curio state rather than collectable condition. If pressed, I would not valuate this piece at more than $750-800, as it has not a whole lot of collectable value to it and could not even be broken down into parts at this stage. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this one would be nothing but a headache for you and would never gain much if any in value over time. You may as well just bite the bullet and figure on jumping through the hoops of the laws on importation, as it's a tough thing to avoid. Australia never did have a lot of Nazi era imports, so the chances of finding something decent in country is going to end up costing you through the nose either way. You might try contacting the various dagger sellers like Paul Hogle at "Lakesidetrader" in Canada and see if he can help you figure out a way to get something nice to you without having to sell your 1st born. He's a good guy. Good luck!
"Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."
As far as I can see this one is in rough shape. Handle has a poorly done repaired chip (looks like glue residue) and and appears to have been re-stained. It's hard to make out entirely the blade with the camera flash but it looks like someone took steel wool to it or something. Pommel nut looks jacked up too. The asking price seems absurd given the condition. 3000 US would get you a much better SS from an online dealer in the States and I would think, cover shipping.
Hi Rusty as said above..there are many issues of condition..that do not match what it is being offered for. I feel this grip does not belong with a Mid period dagger. The inset of the runes button..for this time period has me wondering...but..if you have $3000 to spend..go for an early period nickel fitting dagger. Mid period Transitionals in mint condition.."MIGHT" fetch that much for that price..but not in that condition..and worse it has been opened more times than most doors. As Wagriff stated seek an alternative and reputable source as mentioned. Best Regards Larry
Last edited by Larry C; 07-03-2014 at 09:46 AM.
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
- Larry C
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
Hello Wagriff, and thank you very much for your advice and opinions on this dagger Im glad I asked you guys first instead of just running out and handing over the cash althought even I thought it was a very ordinary dagger. like you say I may aswell jump through all the hopes and pay that sort of money for a nice collectable piece instead of just paying for the convenience. I have been in contact with australian customs some time ago and they tell me i can leagaly import the dagger aslong as i complete all the paper work correctly. Thank you for the contact I will most definetly check it out : )
Hello seventyeighth, thank you for the reply it is definetly a very rough dagger and it is certainly overpriced much like heaps of stuff in australia,You guys have got some really nice stuff I would love to go shopping for antique weapons in the states or canada.............................. .
Hello Larry C, and thank you for the reply I definitely have alot to learn about these daggers and like you say I would be much better off spending the $3000 on a nice collectible piece so I will continue my search : )
Rusty, if you're going to fork over that kind of cash for something, the hoops and one time inconvenience are worth it. I'm as prone as anyone to around here to jump the gun on stuff, but these guys will pull back the reigns. Don't think twice about coming back and showing dagger after dagger if you need to, to get the right one. These are some patient fellows, and some of the most knowledgeable collectors in the world of TR items, so they know their stuff. They'll get you where you want to be.
"Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis
Hello Avenger, Yes it is alot of money but unfortunetly that is about as cheap as I can expect to pay for a nice peice in good condition after purchas price and import taxs of course its worth the time and money but I do worry customs may not release it for what ever reason and then I have wasted $2000-$3000. Thank you for the advice I will be sure to post the next potential purchase should I have any concerns................. .
Hi Rusty, I think you came to the right place, many knowledgeable savy collectors hang out here. I want to encourage you to consider buying internationally. Yes you need a permit to import double edged daggers. It is a bit of a pain the 1st time just learning the ropes, but once you do it once you will find it's pretty simple.
You will need to contact your local Police Firearms Dept. and email them the specifications of the dagger/s which you intend to import i.e. length, double sided blade?, and copy of pictures. In S.A. the email address is – firstname.lastname@example.org
Once approved, you should receive a form (B709B) from the Police Dept. This form is “Importation of Weapons Police Confirmation” this is an Australian Government Customs Service form.
All you do now is simply go to the Australian Government Customs web site – email@example.com and down load an “application for Permission to Import Schedule 2 & 3 Weapons” form. Fill in your details and attach the original B709B form with pictures of the dagger/s and sent it off to customs.
This process can take up to 3 weeks for customs to process, so be patient. You will eventually receive a letter granting permission to import. Customs main concern are concealable weapons, not large daggers.
Hope this is of help.
Finally suggest you take a few minutes to review this link: https://www.lakesidetrader.com/Educa...-heisst-Treue/
Not a perfect article but perhaps you can pick up a few pointers here.
Good luck in your quest!!