SS chained dagger questions
I am looking at purchasing a SS chained dagger and this is one option. These are the only pictures I have at the moment but wondered if some opinions could be given on what can be seen. Seller has promised to send more pictures. My biggest questions so far are related to the chain.
Thanks for your help.
04-01-2016 12:14 PM
From the limited images so far I think that I would keep looking. Best Regards, Fred
Hi Steve, Just looking at the crossguard step and the grip and compared in the link below..is not an RZM 807/36. Use the forum search engine for other related types..and you will see the same deep step.
1st SS Dagger RZM 807/36 SS
For a Type B1 Chained Hanger..it looks more late than early. Photos are not the best..as Fred commented on. From what I can see that this is a mixed bag of parts some real and some not. JMO.
The other issue I see..is the "Time stamp" of an Early 2nd type Chained hanger production being from 1936-37 married to a 1936 RZM dagger.
The Time frame does not match..... Why ?
An SS mann has to complete 3 consecutive years of service before being able to qualify for a Chained Dagger..so an SS mann who joined before 1933 and has received his SSem dagger..can qualify for the 1936 production model being released in that year.
Either a Type A or B1,,both being Nickel construction. ( Type A having the septum in the nasal cavity )
The RZM 807/36 will be awarded to the SS mann joining on or around that date and receiving their SS dagger after a ceremony. So..that SS mann joining in 1936..would have to wait until 1939 completing his 3 yrs of SS service.
How would an SS mann be awarded or have the opportunity to acquire a 1936 pattern Chained scabbard..when in 1939..he would of been awarded the later version Type B2 Nickel Plate or Type C silver plated over Iron.
Above is what appears to be a B1 Chained example having one center ramp screw as B2 has 2 center ramp screws and Type C having either 1 or 2..... but most of the time..2 on Type Cs
The Wotans knot lacks much of the detail what is expected of a B1 or B2.
Im not comfortable at all with this dagger and the photos are horrible. Too many questions and concerns that would have me wait for a better example.
The Tab connectors are all broken where it is supposed to be seamed together..and some have recent soldering.
How much is this one being offered for ?......... and the grip and crossguard kills it
Sorry Steve not for me. If your going to spend near $4500 for an unofficial Chained SS that is either a Vet put together or SS mann elected to use his own having a producers logo ( unproven ) ... save your money for an example with no logo which is how they were produced.
The dealers reading this are probably screaming by now ..but its my opinion that to acquire a Chained SS dagger that is original in expected detail from the 4 variant types..and without having a logo. Original dagger to the Chained Scabbard. Check out some of the pinned threads that JR Meda has posted some exquisite examples that I speak of.
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!
- Larry C
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
"Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."
Thank you for the feedback Larry it is appreciated and confirms my concerns. The time line was something that troubled me. I will rule this one out as I am in no rush to part with my money for something that doesn't stand scrutiny.
A wise decision IMO, Larry nailed a number of the concerns with this dagger. With bad quality pictures oftentimes an intentional act to deceive collectors I obviously can't speak to the owner's intent. When I tried to adjust them a little to get a better feel - my immediate sense of it was that it had more than a few postwar parts. (Maybe some new images help - or not.) Best Regards, Fred
Imo there's nothing original on the chain... Just look and compare the eyes and the bones of the skulls with originals.
And then there's the lack of detail on the runes.
A no go for me...
Ohw okay Steve, sorry that we aren't experienced 'enough'.....
Maybe it's time for you to buy some books yourself...