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SS Dagger 4459

Article about: Hi, I have bought an early SS dagger maker Gottlieb Hammesfahr with member number 4459 on the crossguard. I send a mail to Ross Kelbaugh and got good news. Hi Bart: Thanks for the inquiry. G

  1. #11


    Do have further pics of this grip,blade& cross guards??

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  3. #12


    Here some pics of my hammesfahr grip. Maybe it helps
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture SS Dagger 4459   SS Dagger 4459  

    SS Dagger 4459   SS Dagger 4459  

  4. #13


    Quote by RafaelDaggers View Post
    Here some pics of my hammesfahr grip. Maybe it helps
    Nice dagger!
    But I meant the starter of this thread,

  5. #14


    Agreed !!...... Bart where is the updated dagger pics from the dagger seen in post one??
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  6. #15


    Hi everyone,
    at first I was blown away by the comments. But indeed this is a forum so you have to be prepared for some bad news too. I didn't want to let the dagger go or give it back. I contacted a seller in the States who was convinced my seller was honest and wouldn't sell a parted dagger for a complete. This is a small world apparently. I have sent pictures and he said: I agree there is a gap on the grip meeting point at the lower obverse. We would all like the grips to fit perfect, but unfortunately, after 7 decades, many do not, as grip wood can shrink over the years. So after all someone here in the forum (you know who you are: thanks) convinced me to open the dagger to check if the crossguards match, and they do (OV). The lower crossguard sticks to the blade. It seems it was never or long ago opened. There is indeed some rust inside which probably explanes the schrinking of the wood. The only thing was indeed the grip. So I decided to send the dagger over to Germany for expertise. Last weeks were scary. Lots of packages get lost during this busy time of the year. But now I have a positive evaluation stating (in German): the SS dagger described above and shown below is in my opinion original and belonging together from the first period, all parts of the dagger correspond in form and execution secured original pieces and agree with the accessible literature and the comparison with pieces in my database and in my collection."
    I want to thank everyone for commenting although we must agree, expertising using pictures, taken from different angles is not always easy.
    I have mistrusted my seller which is bottomline first rule I guess. Thing is, I'll keep my dagger.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture SS Dagger 4459   SS Dagger 4459  

  7. #16


    Thankyou for the updated pictures bartvan.

    Imo you have a herder grip on there. Reason being its thinner than normal and the eagle is slightly lower than normal which was a herder thing.

    Imo it is not a hammesfahr grip.

    Best rgds matty

  8. #17


    Nice dagger!
    But I meant the starter of this thread,

    Hi Gerd i know you meant the dagger from Bart,but I thought maybe it helps in this discussion

    Gegards Rafael

  9. #18


    Yes, grip wood can shrink with time and drying, but it would not change Shape at the same time.The angles of the grip do not match the lower guard, in particular. The depth of the lower guard clearly shows that despite any drying and shrinkage that the grip still towers over and above the guard. If it was normal shrinkage, it would simply have sunk lower into the guard-not rise above it. I am agreeing, that this grip has been replaced-most likely with a Herder grip rather than the original Hammesfahr grip. You can see the effects of slight shrinkage to JRMeda's Hammesfahr grip in post # 10 and yet it still fits into the configuration of the guard fine. Unfortunately, this one would not be for my collection.

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  10. #19


    I came to this forum for answers, but I got even more questions. The only thing I thought I could do was give the dagger to someone to look at it 'hand in hand'. Now serious, if Ralf Siegert doesn't know the difference between a (smaller) Herder grip and a Gottlieb grip... He even compared it to the Gottlieb from his own collection. I cannot win from this. 7 minutes after I put the certificate by Siegert here someone posted it's a Herder. And Wagriff, your first mail suggested someone added the number at random.. I know the grip is higher than the lower guard fit where the gap is. The grip was the discussion here. It is deformed I know. But Siegert says it is Gottlieb Hammesfahr. Maybe I should throw his book in the trashcan together with the dagger and give up the idea that any originals are left if I believe everything I read here. But I won't.

  11. #20


    Quote by bartvan haele View Post
    7 minutes after I put the certificate by Siegert here someone posted it's a Herder.
    Guilty as charged.

    One of the others should have told you that. Anyways not my fault I only now saw the thread..

    If we all Google Herder SS dagger we will all see a very familiar grip IMO .

    rgds matty

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