SS Dagger Gebr Heller

[matty01]

Dezieo, did you do any homework before buying an ss dagger? If you did, you would not find what I have said "strange" ?

[dezieo]

I think I'ts best you learn some more yourself, and try not to show off to other people and get brownie stars! you said the pommel nut was plated in your original message? then you said It was real? Wow, i must be nuts.

[matty01]

Dezieo, I like you, your great.

[matty01]

Im very sure Larry likes you to Dezieo.

[Wagriff]

Dezieo....I am intrigued by your comment of "Only to receive sarcastic and some degrading comments from certain members which I don't feel was necessary." Now, I will go out on a limb here and assume that I am the "certain member" of whom you are referring. So, looking back over my initial assessment in post #5-what is it in this reply that makes you feel so offended? Now, if there has been any degrading and sarcastic comments made anywhere, the only ones that I am seeing are your immediate reply to my assessment. "Lord of the rings"? "Come out of fantasy"? "Update my textbook"? Any of this sound familiar? Did my assessment Anywhere personally insult and attack You? But you thought it fit and right-and apparently still do-to afford me just the same treatment as to that which you're complaining yourself? This isn't some sort of Chat Room where you think that talking to people in whatever fashion you happen to feel like at the moment is acceptable. This is an International community of collectors-both novice and advanced. Things are conducted here in an Adult and civil manner.

It might interest you to know that I've been handling,studying and working with daggers like these for the last 50 years or more. I don't Have to explain myself to you or anyone else who does not happen to receive the answer that they are hoping for. The plain and painful fact here is that Heller did Not make SS daggers or their Blades. Take a good look at the Etch of the Motto on your blade. It is Very shallow and poorly executed. Look at the crosshatching on this blade-does it Look like any other Third Reich era daggers that you've ever seen? The Makers mark did indeed exist, but Not on a blade like this. Makers marks were on Early daggers-Before they switched over to RZM numbers. And yet this dagger has a Plated (and thus Later made) pommel nut? Do you seriously think that an organization such as the SS would have received and accepted such a sad condition dagger as the one you have? You can See Light through the blade and guard. The Wood of the grip has Not shrank through time to the extent that your piece is in. It is Grossly Not Fitting to the guards. I could go on and on here-inch by inch-but it's futile, as you've obviously convinced yourself ahead of time and there is no way to change that.

Looking over this piece as a whole, there Is, quite likely, several components that are genuine. The grip, the guards, the sheath, hangers, pommel nut....this does Not mean, however, that they all belong Together. It is Glaringly obvious that these bits have come off of different daggers and have been put together with a fantasy blade to make a brand new "unique" dagger that never was to begin with. Was this an unfinished SA blade that someone poorly etched and stamped? Was it even of the period? Is the sheath a painted black SA sheath? Some fittings on this thing are Solid nickel...some,such as the pommel nut look to be Plated. And, yes-Plated components can, indeed, be genuine, so to explain Matty's "strange statement", a plated nut can be and often is genuine on later pieces. It depends on the era of production. I am frankly surprised from my fantasy musings that an advanced collector such as yourself would need to have this explained to him. At any rate, my original assessment still stands and the more that I look at this thing the less I am seeing that any novice collector could or would imagine that it is genuine of the period. And, no-for the record, I am not impressed by the constant name dropping of "Wittmann". Especially in the light of if he thinks this dagger is real. Perhaps Wittmann should talk to Paul Hogle- another premier expert in the US and Canada on Third Reich daggers-but then again, you've already heard from Paul on your other thread in the dagger forum. And he said.....surprisingly....No.

[dezieo]

Hi William, Thanks for the feedback. I understand your views on the dagger. To be fair my reply to your lord of the rings statement was due to the very abrupt remarks you made on the dagger. I did indeed feel insulted, I understand I've put the Dagger on for comments. But I thought your vocabulary was quite strong and belittling. I have had this dagger for about 6 years. I'm looking to hopefully looking sell it on! I do respect your comments on your last message. So you think the blade has been ground down and a new motto added? the blade shape, form and thickness Is looking right. I will get the measuring callipers on it. Do you know the thickness reg for SS Daggers? ps. for the record I'm no advanced collector.

Many thanks, Dezieo.

[matty01]

I think you have done a good job clearing that one up wagriff.

The blade and crossguards are mickey mouse without a doubt.
Im half thinking the grip was ex SA, rubbed down and debadged of the SA button. Inevitable chomping marks created by removing the sa badge would of then been filled up with filla, resprayed and a replica SS button installed (albeit in the wrong place). The SS runes look to big and thick in my view to be genuine.
More interestingly the scabbard does look to bear aged nickel fittings so im interested to see what this will look like.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was a ex SA scabbard (probably the one that matches the grip) painted black as wagriff suggested.

Ps. I do still think you have a seriously messed with but original tang nut Dezieo. lol

[maximus71]

Hi dezieo, All that you had to say was you respectfully disagreed with some opinions on here and that you are going to get some more professional outside opinions on it before accepting the ones on here, but then again maybe that is what you should have done before coming on here in the first place? then we would wait and see what everyone has said, if 29 out of 30 people say its bad or a parts dagger will you believe the one person who said its good? you should not be offended by negative feedback unless this dagger was a direct hand down from a reletive who was a WW2 vet or unless you paid 10 grand for it. I am currently in the market for one and even though I am very new to the hobby I know what I want and who I would want it from, there will be no doubt about such an item for me that is heavily faked and high in price. I hope you get some answers that you can accept and I wish you luck wth selling it, plenty of people have purchased worse, Maybe if you are serious about collecting and learning and being a gentleman in discussions then may I suggest becoming a club member here instead of leaving 10 or 20 posts, trying to ruffle feathers and then fading off into the sunset, which is usually what happens in cases like this and is down right disrespectful but we cannot control the world. we would all welcome you to stay and learn and improve your knowledge with the rest of us, in general to disagree is ok here, but to be a douche about disagreeing isnt.

[dezieo]

Hey Matey, You should be physic! LOL! Great stuff!!

[dezieo]

Sorry, sidekick ;0