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SS Gift Dagger and SS Paper Knife Real or Fake

Article about: Hi guys, I'm new here and hereby greet you all very much! I currently have the chance to get these daggers for a good price.As however these daggers are very rare pieces, I need the help of

  1. #21

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    Hi guys, first thanks to all!Like I said,I am stumped.On the basis of the written,to learn anything more-(I can not)!
    That with the date 37,on a Model 33 seems to me in subsequently also suspect ago.Gift dagger or not.
    So the inscription is 100%.I will today or tomorrow send more and better Pictures.Just one more thing,this Helmut Schöne
    i mean,i find under this Link.There are just 2 with this Name... Link Forum der Wehrmacht | Einheiten der Allgemeinen SS | 24.SS-Standarte
    Look under C staffing Schöne, Helmut; Standartenführer ------------------ F. 24 ------------ 07.01.1935-21.03.1938 Greeting to Fred!

    Thanks again to all professionals reply¨Best Regards Patrick

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  3. #22

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    The inscription is 100% Black...Sorry

  4. #23

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    Quote by Julfest38 View Post
    Hi guys, first thanks to all!Like I said,I am stumped.On the basis of the written,to learn anything more-(I can not)!
    That with the date 37,on a Model 33 seems to me in subsequently also suspect ago.Gift dagger or not.
    So the inscription is 100%.I will today or tomorrow send more and better Pictures.Just one more thing,this Helmut Schöne
    i mean,i find under this Link.There are just 2 with this Name... Link Forum der Wehrmacht | Einheiten der Allgemeinen SS | 24.SS-Standarte
    Look under C staffing Schöne, Helmut; Standartenführer ------------------ F. 24 ------------ 07.01.1935-21.03.1938 Greeting to Fred!

    Thanks again to all professionals reply¨Best Regards Patrick
    Hello Patrick, what the link shows is this:

    Schöne, Helmut; Obersturmbannführer ------------- F. 24 ------------ 07.01.1935-21.03.1938
    Schöne, Helmut; Standartenführer ------------------ F. 24 ------------ 07.01.1935-21.03.1938


    Same name and dates, different ranks, and no SS numbers or other identifiers. So this I think is going to need some more research into the records - with most likely not much "wiggle room" as it regards some of the other comments. And on my computer screen the inscription looks gold, not black. Best Regards, Fred

  5. #24

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    Hello Fred,I look for more Information.The Golden inscription,came from the Light!
    Here you can see it betterClick image for larger version. 

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    Best Regardscool

  6. #25

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    My best advice on these 2 pieces is that they are both far beyond questionable and I would strongly suggest passing on both of them. I would judge neither one as being genuine and untampered with. The Model 33 is Mostly original, but, among other things, the grip has been painted for unknown reasons and the inscription etching makes little sense. It is a simple matter to look in the records and to find and use a Real name to give a bogus inscription or document fake credibility and I believe that this is exactly what has happened here. It does not take a master forger to add this small touch and we're seeing this happening more and more frequently of late. In any case, an SS Standartenfuhrer was the equivalent of basically an SS Colonel and one would certainly would not be carrying a Model 33 in a vertical hanger. The Model 33's were phased out for Officer's in 1936.

    I'm not going to go into great detail here as the points needed to be made have already been amply noted by the others above. Definitely, save your money and walk away from these 2 pieces.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  7. #26

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    Did you ever feel someone elses skills are being "Honed" at our expense ...that is a heck of a color contrast..going from gold to black. I see motto toning change like this when held in the light at different angles..and yes sometimes frosted grey motto backgrounds...will "appear darkened".. This one is from "Blackstone" the magician. Its the same blade from the knick at the bottom of the blade...but the transition is hard to believe...going from Gold to a deep Black? Amazing
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  8. #27

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    I would only like to say that incandescent to flourescent lighting and different background color WILL produce very different hues on photo images.
    I know this for fact from trying to photograph my miniatures.
    Ralph.
    Searching for anything relating to, Anton Boos, 934 Stamm. Kp. Pz. Erz. Abt. 7, 3 Kompanie, Panzer-Regiment 2, 16th Panzer-Division (My father)

  9. #28

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    Hi Ralph I agree also when photographing...as the woods on grips either come out slightly lighter or darker..or one level of color tone change......which is still noticeable of the original color. The photos above are a stark contrast...going through many color spectrum levels of change..which still has me shaking my head. The use of incandescent lighting does give off a gold hue mainly in areas which are subject to discoloration. Browns oranges..yellows,, whites and pinks..mostly lighter colors mixable with a gold hue will be affected.
    Incandescents from what I have seen can take a dark zeroed black color..and still turn it noticeably darker..or almost brown to grey in appearance. I see this in mixing printing inks at work..although the properties are different..its not that far off in a tone change.

    My point and Im not arguing yours is...we have sen many photos come through here from the worst to the best to the clearest to the unfocused....none have come close to what I seen in the first post..and especially the first pic in post #24...the viewer can actually see how the motto has a grey appearance..than the blackness of the rest of the photos. I would of expected to see possible if not black a noticeably dark color other than gold. Incandescents do give off that hue....but the 2 tone gold in the word "Meine" and the rest of the motto still leaves me guessing.

    The motto IMO is printed on which shows no depth or aging..this one is crisp out of the Cracker Jack box.
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  10. #29
    ?

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    This is what I've found on 'Helmut Schöne' on the internet.

    SCHÖNE, Helmut
    (1905 - )
    SS-Sturmbannführer / SS-Sturmbannfuhrer d.R. (W-SS):
    Born: 6. Nov. 1905.
    Died:
    NSDAP-Nr.: 163 566
    SS-Nr.: 32 852
    Promotions:
    SS-Sturmbannfuhrer d.R. (W-SS):
    SS-Sturmbannführer: 9. Nov. 1934
    Career:
    Fuhrer 105.SS-Standarte:
    Decorations & Awards:
    1939 Eisernes Kreuz II. Klasse
    Kriegsverdienstkreuz II. Klasse mit Schwertern
    Verwundetenabzeichen, 1939 in Schwarz
    Totenkopfring der SS

    So, he wasn't Standartenführer for sure!!!

  11. #30

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    PhotoShop?
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

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