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SS Untersturmfuhrer Franz Hay 3238 Waffen SS?

Article about: Hi everyone, I was wondering if somebody could help me identify if SS Untersturmfuhrer Franz Hay 3238 was in the regular SS or the Waffen SS. I have recently come across his ground Röhm dagg

  1. #1

    Default SS Untersturmfuhrer Franz Hay 3238 Waffen SS?

    Hi everyone,
    I was wondering if somebody could help me identify if
    SS Untersturmfuhrer Franz Hay 3238 was in the regular SS or the Waffen SS.
    I have recently come across his ground Röhm dagger and it
    Has his service number on it. I am tossing up between this dagger and another.
    If he was in the Waffen SS then I will pick this one because I am after an early SS members dagger.
    I have tried in vain to find this information but was hoping someone on this
    Forum could help me, as I’m fairly illiterate on the ol computer.
    Its very much appreciated, thank you.

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  3. #2

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    An early 4 digit number ...he would of been in the Allgemeine SS first ....after that not sure where he may have ended up.

    SS Officer researcher Ross Kellbaugh would be the man to ask.
    I dont have his email ...but if someone could post it in this thread...it would be helpful.
    Thankyou

    Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  4. #3

    Default

    Surely no Waffen-SS service; your man was in the Allgemeine SS during the pre-war years and already 61 years of age at the start of WW II.

    Here's what data I can find in the SS-Dienstalterslisten [SS Officer Seniority Lists]:


    • Name: Hay Franz
    • Date of birth: 30 March 1878
    • NSDAP number: 29 162
    • SS number: 3238
    • Promotion date: 9 November 1935 - Untersturmführer*)
    • Duty assignment: Stammabteilung Bezirk 10 (SS-DAL of 1 Dec. 1936, 1 Dec. 1937 and 1 Dec. 1938)
    • Awards: Goldenes Ehrenzeichen der NSDAP [Golden Party Badge], Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer [1914/18 Honor Cross for Combatants], Totenkopfring der SS [Death's Head Ring of the SS].
    • Other data: Exempt from the obligation of having to qualify for the German Sports Badge and SA Sports Badge due to being over 50 years of age.



    *) He still held this rank in 1939. Hay is not listed in any of the wartime DALs, which means he never progressed to Sturmbannführer or higher. (It is possible that he was promoted to Obersturmführer or, at most, Hauptsturmführer.)

  5. #4

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    Admirable piece of research for AussieNewbie. Did you begin with the SS Officer's name or his service number? PY.

  6. #5

    Default

    Ross Kelbaugh: ssdolch@yahoo.com

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote by PembrokeYeo View Post
    Admirable piece of research for AussieNewbie. Did you begin with the SS Officer's name or his service number? PY.
    His name. The DAL's have an alphabetical index, listing each officer's name and the number under which he can be found in the respective list.

  8. #7

    Default

    Thanks for your help everybody, much appreciated.
    As I’m a new collector and not exactly rolling in coin I think I’ll pass
    on this dagger and save my penny’s for a once in a lifetime purchase of a
    dagger that will be the pride of the fleet.
    Thanks again, the people on this forum are great.

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