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DD M40 ET66 #700 or #703

Article about: I am trying to help out a guy on another forum with this one. I don't hold out much hope for a few reasons. It's a double decal M40 for starters, and black which I believe is unheard of for

  1. #11
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    Default Re: DD M40 ET66 #700 or #703

    Quote by KradSpam View Post
    Excerpts from that thread and as I am not a member and dont intend to join I'll address Ch. concerns;

    >>>>Hi Sorry to say that the other sight that said this was a fake are a bunch of no nothing johny come latelys,the one that said the runes where to thin for a pocher is right,its not a pocher its an austrian decal,where do these people get there knowledge,.ch.

    The runic decal is not an Austrian decal. It is graphically incorrect for starters. There are I believe 3 Austrian decals known. All on Austrian transitional helmets with Austrian party shields and all are painted earth brown. The knowledge comes from, yes, owning examples and study with Mr Hicks. The Austrians have specific provenance, a specific and traceable pattern and all predate M40 helmets, being produced in the formative years of the SS. None are on M40s or M35s for that matter nor would I believe exist.

    >>>Hi You dont like the party decal see page 84 KELLY HICKS SS STEEL for same decal,or has kelly hicks got it wrong. ch.

    Yes actually he does. I owned that exact helmet and proved to Kelly it was a bad one. Through new knowledge, including database and digital magnification it was proven beyond any doubt it was a bad one. This exact party decal has been found on a fake police M42, a fake police camo M40, a black civic SS dressed up as a civic SS and a fake black M35 SS, as well as other black SS helmets like this one.

    This decal like I said above has fooled many in the SS collecting community but through research Kelly and I performed the past 3-4 years using this new knowledge we were able to classify this as a reproduction. The helmet is now out of circulation and I have all the database photos and magnification pics to prove this on my portable hard drive. The telling sign is the construction which causes the unusual but telltale vertical and horizontal cracking along with the the right offset swaz.

    >>>Ch... you may have had the helmet for 45 years... but you know the saying..."No fool like an old fool..."

    It's not fair to call Ch a fool, this is newer knowledge on the party decal although the runic decal is a clear fake. These fake decals are exactly 45 years old, but are not 70 years old. They (this fake party shield) all can be traced to that time period. exactly the one period they were produced and before the Internet, detailed knowledge and database comparables. Not 1 can be traced beyond this. And we believe we know the origin of them as well.

    >>>Hi Again sorry to come back in again but dougB really knocked me out he is the biggest W----R I have ever heard on these sights and YES I HAPEND TO HAVE THAT HELMET the most valiable helmet in the world,nobody can have what I have.What a tosher.

    Thats how you learn, by hands on. Yes I have the m40 also featured in Kelly's book which states what I've posted in this thread and Kelly has also featured my factory black M35, also what I posted above. I'm not making this stuff up and only stated this so as to back up the statements. I am not trying to pump my own tires.

    It's frustrating to hear your dear blackie is bad but the truth is better than not. Researching SS decals in detail in this example cost me dearly. I could pretend its good or I could do the right thing and face the truth and advance the hobby with one of the best collaboratively (Kelly), and member Schwerpunkt (Frank) also has the inside scoop on this fake and assisted me with the research.

    If Mr Ch who is black Janos in this forum wants to discuss further in great detail I would be happy to host a conference call with Kelly / Frank to discuss.
    Last edited by DougB; 04-27-2012 at 03:39 AM.

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  3. #12
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    Default Re: DD M40 ET66 #700 or #703

    Quote by DougB View Post
    The actual SS inventory lists
    now that I am home I can cite exactly , from the SS Beftandsbuch, page 9 where by 1-4-39 Stahlhelm, Schwarz was no longer in their inventory and never was beyond. My book is part of a very large documents and photo grouping including 2 long and detailed diaries ( 1 being a combat diary ) belonging to Friederich Burgstaller, KIA 1943, was SS Totenkopf prewar.

    Again, supported by the fact there is not 1 period photo of a double decal black SS M40 in use by German forces nor the requirement for such, and as seen above it was not part of the inventory lists after early 39.

    In closing I apologize for the many replies, I am not trying to shout down anyone through massed responses, just answering in detail that is deserving of the questions put forth to the best of my knowledge.

    Cheers
    Doug

  4. #13
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    Default Re: DD M40 ET66 #700 or #703

    Quote by black janos View Post
    Hi Doug How do you have this information ,which book,what documents,which files are you going by here,question there are no m40 black ss helmets?.
    Oh hi Janos, I just realized you are Ch I quoted to answer Kradspam. So you can directly see the issues. Sorry to say that is a tough break on the black M40 but it was a tough break as it was on my end with the bad M34 from Kelly's book but it's knowledge gained.

    And I'll ignore the tosher comment, as I don't know what a tosher does or is. And sorry but my area of detailed study is SS helmets so yes I've owned a couple.

    Cheers
    Doug the Tosher.

  5. #14

    Default Re: DD M40 ET66 #700 or #703

    Quote by DougB View Post
    now that I am home I can cite exactly , from the SS Beftandsbuch..........
    That book must have been a great find, like a Rosetta stone of SS collecting.

  6. #15
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    Default Re: DD M40 ET66 #700 or #703

    Quote by KradSpam View Post
    That book must have been a great find, like a Rosetta stone of SS collecting.
    I am sure documents collectors have seen this inventory book. This book offers massive insight into the uniforms, accoutrements, gear and yes helmets, issued and the soldiers themselves had to maintain a dated and detailed inventory. It's fascinating really! I have a photo of Burgstaller wearing his black M35 - not M40 ;-) - in 1938 in a studio portrait that's just awesome. His diaries are amazing as well. He was a guard at Dachau prewar as well.

  7. #16
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    Default Re: DD M40 ET66 #700 or #703

    As others have said, SS decal is bad. I have seen this type of fake before.

    I hate to admit, they did a good job on the party shield. Scary.

    Samir

  8. #17

    Default Re: DD M40 ET66 #700 or #703

    I don't usually comment when not the entire helmet is presented , a helmet is build out of many different parts and being able to see the whole often helps discussion.
    The decals even though the photos are not really good are bad in my opinion. Doug already gave a very elaborate explanation that says all.
    Stilll , I would love to see the entire helmet.

  9. #18

    Default Re: DD M40 ET66 #700 or #703

    Quote by Schwerpunkt View Post
    I don't usually comment when not the entire helmet is presented , a helmet is build out of many different parts and being able to see the whole often helps discussion.
    The decals even though the photos are not really good are bad in my opinion. Doug already gave a very elaborate explanation that says all.
    Stilll , I would love to see the entire helmet.
    I doubt that will happen Frank, I asked the same of the owner in the thread on GMIC, but he says he has no camera only a scanner. He's probably busy cleaning the blades of his desk fan currently anyway...........

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