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Fake M34 SS Blackie being sold by eMedals

Article about: by MikeEM Doug, Thank you for the comments. As I mentioned, we are adamant not to sell fakes and to respect the collecting community. I will personally review the items you have mentioned. I

  1. #81

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    Absolutely.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

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  3. #82

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    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    Regardless of the current helmet fiasco, I, also, have to agree with Tempelhof. Of all my dealings with eMedals, I have always been more than satisfied and have gotten some very noteworthy pieces from them. Barry Turk has always treated me quite well. It would be a sad thing to see them damaged by this situation. Their inventory includes some medals and collectables that simply can not be found elsewhere. I have never sought to purchase a Helmet from them and am unlikely to do so in the future for the reason that helmets are not what I occasionally peruse through their stock for, is all. At any rate, the suspect helmets have been removed right away when attention was pointed to them and this is what one would hope to see given this occurrence. If such things continue in the future is another thing altogether, but for now, I would hope that the heat cools down and people allow them to either prove themselves true or otherwise.
    I can buy good helmets from all the dealers with mixed inventory. If and only if I choose to do so I would never feel sad that they get called out for selling crap , a relation with a dealer is pure business for me. I don't feel the need to advertise for them and tell to others how wonderful they are.
    In this hobby it could mean someone else gets burned because they read your post praising them to heaven.
    Just something to think about. I see these 'what do you think about this dealer' topics pop up regularly and dealers often get way too much praise.
    In my opinion. They should praise us and not **** about with fakes.

  4. #83

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    Well, Frank...Your personal experience with a seller does not always reflect the experiences of Others with the same seller. You don't "feel the need to advertise for them and praising them to heaven", but you Do feel the need for the opposite? Because John Smith has a negative experience with seller X, does not mean that I,who have never had anything but good experiences with seller X, should immediately jump on the bandwagon and take up a torch and pitchfork because He has. That would hardly reflect well on a person's integrity and I, for one, choose not to grab the tar bucket because someone Else has had a bad transaction. Sorry if that doesn't agree with your outlook, but it does with mine.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  5. #84

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    Quote by DougB View Post
    That's the exact same police helmet. Exact same fake party decal. A collector sent me a pic of his transitional SS tonight. Same fake runic decal. So there's another one exposed. Collector new it was this decal too, a good thing.
    i wouldent no where that helmet ended up. after taking it back i never went back to him, he had some nice stuff. but i would rather find it my self. i did see him at a gun show, a while ago. he only had one sd m40 heer with him. and no more helmets.

  6. #85
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    Quote by geelong View Post
    i wouldent no where that helmet ended up. after taking it back i never went back to him, he had some nice stuff. but i would rather find it my self. i did see him at a gun show, a while ago. he only had one sd m40 heer with him. and no more helmets.
    You're the second guy down under to get scammed by this exact helmet. Dealer probably sold it again and we will see it pop up somewhere in the future.

    Note the vertical and horizontal crazing? That and the unusual offset are the killers for this one.
    I was told when I was young (LOL) it's in a book and it's an early decal. How does an early (1935) boutique locally made party decal wind up on a mid war (1943) M42 police with a fake police decal? Answer - it can't. I had already strongly suspected it was bad. So this helmet was the final nail in the coffin for this M34 SS. I immediately called my friend who had requested for years I sell him this helmet, and refunded him. In a way this police you used to own is a real blessing in disguise.

    The M34 SS also totally debunked another very dangerous research trend, that of XRF to authenticate decals and helmet paint. I felt XRF had real potential but once I knew this helmet, which had been scanned and "authenticated" as 100% real by XRF, was fake the entire premise of XRF comes crashing down, because XRF cannot be 99% right.

    XRF was a short step from becoming deriguer in helmet authentication. Dealers everywhere started using it, and that was especially dangerous as it was used as their authentication tool and it also was featured in SS Steel v2. If not for the diligent efforts of Frank and Craig and for me this helmet proving to me it was bunk, XRF today would be dominant and us collectors would be prisoner to what the XRF ray gun, a flawed database, and no scientific discipline, said.

    We were on the doorstep of the potential for the total and complete corruption by dealers. So this M34 SS and this fake police helmet are two saviors of the helmet collecting genre and shows what not giving in to dealer pressure, it's "in a book", a singular expert, and diligent research can do.

  7. #86
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    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    Well, Frank...Your personal experience with a seller does not always reflect the experiences of Others with the same seller. You don't "feel the need to advertise for them and praising them to heaven", but you Do feel the need for the opposite? Because John Smith has a negative experience with seller X, does not mean that I,who have never had anything but good experiences with seller X, should immediately jump on the bandwagon and take up a torch and pitchfork because He has. That would hardly reflect well on a person's integrity and I, for one, choose not to grab the tar bucket because someone Else has had a bad transaction. Sorry if that doesn't agree with your outlook, but it does with mine.
    I agree it cuts both ways, both you and Frank have valid points.

    For me the litmus test for a dealer is standing behind what they sell, with immediate cash refunds if they have made a mistake. EMedals claims they do this. I now challenge them to hold true to this commitment and not delete the evidence of bad helmets they have sold others.

    If the helmets are good, as they say, why did they delete them?

    So for me I await their reply. But my mistrust of them now is strong. If they cannot respond and live up to their commitment, as bound by the Fair Trade Act, and continue to list fake German helmets then my friends, you are dealing with a criminal, plain and simple. I hope they will respond positively.

  8. #87

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    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    Well, Frank...Your personal experience with a seller does not always reflect the experiences of Others with the same seller. You don't "feel the need to advertise for them and praising them to heaven", but you Do feel the need for the opposite? Because John Smith has a negative experience with seller X, does not mean that I,who have never had anything but good experiences with seller X, should immediately jump on the bandwagon and take up a torch and pitchfork because He has. That would hardly reflect well on a person's integrity and I, for one, choose not to grab the tar bucket because someone Else has had a bad transaction. Sorry if that doesn't agree with your outlook, but it does with mine.
    I am not talking about a bad transaction , I am talking about dealers who know they sell good and bad stuff. Dealers whom repeatedly cross the line of decency yet still get respect from buyers.
    I cannot wrap my head around that ,a crook is a crook.
    E medals now being caught red handed is my idea of a crook. How many people have been buying bad stuff from them for how long ?

  9. #88

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    They removed the helmets, I am assuming, because of what you told them about their being fake. After being informed of this, I would have expected them to remove them and no longer offer them for sale? The bottomline here being that despite a considerably bad experience here, I, Personally, have never had a problem with them. I'm not "praising them to high heaven" or any other such nonsense, but am simply stating my own experience with them. That's all. I would consider myself absurd to jump on the bandwagon and bad talk someone who has never dealt badly with me. What type of person would do this? I'm not out campaigning for a Presidential Candidate here, and have no intention of becoming their "Council of Defense" either...People have to judge a person by how they, themselves , have been treated by them.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  10. #89
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    Wagriff I am wondering if your reading what they did? Those helmets were not for sale. They were already SOLD. They have hidden evidence of their selling fakes, unless they are refunding the buyers, there is something wrong, no?

    Does that not seem like strange?

    if a robber robs your neighbor but he was nice to you, that is ok?

  11. #90

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    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    Regardless of the current helmet fiasco, I, also, have to agree with Tempelhof. Of all my dealings with eMedals, I have always been more than satisfied and have gotten some very noteworthy pieces from them. Barry Turk has always treated me quite well. It would be a sad thing to see them damaged by this situation. Their inventory includes some medals and collectables that simply can not be found elsewhere. I have never sought to purchase a Helmet from them and am unlikely to do so in the future for the reason that helmets are not what I occasionally peruse through their stock for, is all. At any rate, the suspect helmets have been removed right away when attention was pointed to them and this is what one would hope to see given this occurrence. If such things continue in the future is another thing altogether, but for now, I would hope that the heat cools down and people allow them to either prove themselves true or otherwise.

    to add to our colleague Wagriff's comments, really the best dealer is not one that never lists a fake item, it's one that responds in the right way to the discovery of a fake in their inventory. this is all you can ask for.

    i am pretty comfortable with wound badges among a very few and narrow other things. i've not been burned by one yet and i have expressed numerous opinion on them here and managed to keep on the right side of things. however, even there, i think were i to become a dealer the volume alone would result in an error here and there and certainly more than i would like.

    one fact that i will readily admit is that on those rare occasions i run into an extremely challenging wound badge, i have the luxury of passing and not providing comment at all. in this way, looking at myself coldly and brutally in the mirror with complete honesty, my record and my abilities therefore appear better than they are.

    when you're a dealer, you are VERY much exposed and dealing with volume and therefore more chance of making that mistake. so from a dealer i don't expect every listing to be right. instead, i expect two realistic things: i expect a dealer to remove a listing when a piece is proven fake and, if not proven fake but even controversial, i expect disclosure from the dealer. second, i expect full backing after a purchase for the life of the original purchaser who may discover a problem, proven, which might appear later. and i would carry this to the extent mentioned before that a dealer discovering an error after a sale has concluded has, incumbent upon him, the responsibility of contacting his buyer. this is not just good business, it's excellent business.

    a dealer that stands congruent with these characteristics is the "perfect" dealer in my opinion and these traits in conjunction with my own due diligence make such a dealer one i will do business with again and again.

    in essence, i look not for a dealer that makes no mistakes, but i look rather for a dealer who is a gentleman and has the integrity to back the appellation.

    i know you helmet guys run a tight ship and i apologize if my post seems to stray from the topic of the quality of a particular lid. i respond hopefully in context to the branch of this discussion having to do with dealers and the attitudes that we have about them.

    Edit: i want to say again very clearly that i take no issue with what DOUGB's intentions are here nor do i have the slightest issue with the way he expresses his opinion. he has obvious expertise and a track record to support it and what's more is he speaks plainly and to the point (a very valuable trait for any collector seeking opinion). my membership here guarantees me that were i ever to venture into helmets, putting what i might purchase before him gives protection i'm not going to find easily anywhere else. i say this without the slightest irony with respect to comments i've made about how i personally view the dealer/collector relationship (ie: i do not want to be seen as soft on dealers in comparison with DougB's direct and to the point style). in the end, it's caveat emptor and the wouldbe collector must understand the role of talent and the resource of people in which it is found before the first dollar (or Euro or GBP) is spent.

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