M42 SD CKL 5345 / Champagne

[ajax3985]

At this point, I do not think any photos posted on line will change anyone's mind as I think opinions are already set in stone. Kelly Hicks firmly knows that original examples were brought back by vets. As I mentioned, I also have bought several over the years directly from vets. Evidence requested by some today was not considered necessary years ago.. At this point, I doubt there will ever be a universal acceptance or rejection of these helmets. As Bob Hritz said, "why bother." None of us old timers have any idea what we are talking about.

I do not think talking down the old timers is the answer, but as old as you may be Bob, they were still faking this crap before you were born. The old timers ran about without any information, took no evidence, no photos, and no nothing in many cases as that is the way it was and I understand that. I like some old timers and then there are some that have shown themselves to be non-trustworthy.

Bottom line is, the evidence against these helmets is heavier than what I have seen in the past on any one given item. The " Old Timers " are dumping into auction and into market through channels and those channels include autograph peddlers of yesteryear. Kelly Hicks is an autograph peddler, he sells his signature on the premise that he is an old timer and an expert. No, I would not be so quick to buy that and the other that did so are apparently screwed. Does he pony up and admit his mistake? No. Does one or should one trust him because he is an old timer? HELL NO!.

A man that asks another to lie to save face is not trustworthy, and if you read that article not only are there 3 painted helmets with 3 C.O.A's from Hick's. He asks the author to lie on a blackie. So, no disrespect to you Bob and I think your a good guy and all but your not the only guy that's been around the block. My block is just located in a different area, and we ran out of sugar coating many years ago. Its all plain here and duck walks like a duck, a cow go's moo, and the cat say's meow. Those helmets were not even classified as Champagne till at best 1993, he cant back his tank up because he classified it and printed it., and then he signed his name for money.

[M38]

Bob, I guess I fall in the "old timer" category as well and I know about the respect thing too. But I know you remember, back then we only knew first pattern and second pattern SS decals. No distinction between Pocher and Q runes or ET and champagne runes. Is it not possible that the helmets you and some others remember as champagne rune examples were merely real ET style second pattern decals that were tarnished and looked a little golden? There are plenty of those around even now. How can you be dead certain you were looking at champagne runes back then?

Cheers,
Terry

[BOB COLEMAN]

[QUOTE=M38;1601955]Bob, I guess I fall in the "old timer" category as well and I know about the respect thing too. But I know you remember, back then we only knew first pattern and second pattern SS decals. No distinction between Pocher and Q runes or ET and champagne runes. Is it not possible that the helmets you and some others remember as champagne rune examples were merely real ET style second pattern decals that were tarnished and looked a little golden? There are plenty of those around even now. How can you be dead certain you were looking at champagne runes back then?

Cheers,
Terry[/QUOTE
Hi Terry-
Yes I am sure and do not wish to go in to detail as nothing I say will change any one's opinion. I have seen the one Bob Hritz directly vet bought about ten years ago. There is another explanation to these that has yet and may never come forward. I am comfortable with them and am so from personal experience. This is not the first incident of genuine items being labeled fake. It was not that long ago that a leading European collector denied the existence of the Dachau insignia. There was also tremendous debate over the period originality of the balkan cross vehicle identification flag.

[ajax3985]

I feel the same way. I bought one, in 2005, as I wanted a helmet in as perfect condition as possible. Not being a big helmet collector, more of an accumulator of those I had gotten from my ads, I did my research and showed it to those who had made a study of helmets. I have no intention of asking for a refund and agree that the transaction was done in good faith. I also believe that at some point, a deal must be closed. I am a big boy and have learned to live with my mistakes.

For those who believe a deal is never over and a seller must share in a loss, I think they should also share the profits with the former seller when they sell at a profit. That way, a deal is never done as with a mistake they buy.

Bob Hritz

Bob Hritz bouht his in open market as well, none appear to be vet direct and none originate in Europe.

[BOB COLEMAN]

Bob Hritz bouht his in open market as well, none appear to be vet direct and none originate in Europe.

Your statement is incorrect.

[KMMorris]

I would be careful with your accusations Ajax, Bob Hritz is a very respected collector and I agree with Bob your statement is incorrect about the open market.

[ajax3985]

Your statement is incorrect.

Thats his quote right above you Bob, says normally he purchased off his ads and the helmet was shown around for opinions. Pretty clear its not a vet direct purchase. People want to start changing their stories Bob and things start to get ugly so I quoted Bob Hritz direct.

[ajax3985]

I would be careful with your accusations Ajax, Bob Hritz is a very respected collector and I agree with Bob your statement is incorrect about the open market.

Ill say what I want, I posted his quote what dont you understand about it?. Ill tell you things about the open market that will curl your nails and dont tell me who is respected and not respected either. I want to talk to you ill address you.

[KMMorris]

No need to be rude and offence or sling personal attacks, your tone is very unsavory.

[Larry C]

Hi Ajax ,,if you have something to add about the open market please share it with the community here. It would be appreciated