M42 SD CKL 5345 / Champagne

[vaengard17]

Hi all,

I understood there is a lot of 'talks' going on about the M42 SD CKL 5000+ lot numbers. Nonetheles i would like you present you mine / enjoy

[SSamir]

This appears to be the controversial Champagne Runic type decal that is usually found on CKL manufactured helmets. I highly advise you wait for member DougB to chime in, or email Kelly Hicks. These two collectors will be the closest your gonna get to a definitive answer. Good Luck.

Regards
Samir

[BOB COLEMAN]

The first SS helmet I acquired was in 1961. It had a champagne decal on it. I remember this as for a long time, I thought only genuine SS decals had the gilt color. I also have veteran bought several SS helmets with this decal from vets in the 1960's and 70's. Fakes may exist these days with the champagne decal, but there are definitely period genuine examples. I know this from my own personal experience from back in the days when even decent fake decals did not exist and also the provenance of where I got them.

[Overthetop]

i think its ok,.very cool lid

si

[cricketchris1944]

Stay away from any champagne runes. They are all bad.

[Schwerpunkt]

This is a late No decal lotnr helmet so the shield is not WW2 Original based alone on this info and the second nail in its coffin is the recent discovery that all the decals bearing this style are in fact painted on.

[Overthetop]

yeah the helmet itself is great,.very cool,.but i know jack #@%& about SS decals.


si

[cricketchris1944]

This is a late No decal lotnr helmet so the shield is not WW2 Original based alone on this info and the second nail in its coffin is the recent discovery that all the decals bearing this style are in fact painted on.

Well saided Frank.

[Kelly H]

The first SS helmet I acquired was in 1961. It had a champagne decal on it. I remember this as for a long time, I thought only genuine SS decals had the gilt color. I also have veteran bought several SS helmets with this decal from vets in the 1960's and 70's. Fakes may exist these days with the champagne decal, but there are definitely period genuine examples. I know this from my own personal experience from back in the days when even decent fake decals did not exist and also the provenance of where I got them.

Bob, thanks for the posting. This basically says it all. Collectors have to keep sharply in mind that thousands of posts on forums does not earn anyone the right to declare something fake or real. Even with a careful and well-worded presentation (albeit two of the examples used were vet purchased helmets), they are only presenting one viewpoint because in the end, they were not there. None of us were. Making a debate into a form of attack is never a good idea--perhaps effective in the short term, but eventually it shows its true colors and does nothing but cause damage to the collecting community and their confidence in the long term. The collecting hobby needs leaders like Bob C, FB, Dimas, vK and many others on this forum. A professional attitude, independent thinking, hard work, reading and research, and forums are a good combination-- but forums alone do not make the full picture for understanding what the Germans did with helmets. There has always been, since I can remember, a debate about champagne runes. I can tell you yes, there are many fake ones. Collectors chose to either ignore them or embrace them, based on their experiences collecting. I can also tell you there are real ones--not that many perhaps. I have handled 8 to 10 champagne runes that I consider to be truly real in my collecting life. One was a vet purchase and one was indirect. They were part of what led me in my formative years to consider the NS pattern as a legitimate issue and reissue decal. Without an internet, I only had research, collector visits, collector venues, and analysis of my findings to make my conclusions, which I wrote about in my books, starting in 1993. Most of what I said has been repeated in some form or another since the beginning of the forums. Before SS-Steel nobody would touch an SS helmet. After SS-Steel (2003, Bender Publishing), collectors had the confidence to collect them aggressively, and it took off. The SS decal to maker relationship thesis spawned many excellent works on Wehrmacht helmets as well, by fellow collectors with a similar passion for hard work and analysis. Their books are great. It is up to collectors to use the knowledge they have gained and to keep confident in the hobby. Young collectors are the most important to us all and our conduct is critical to their becoming the new generation to carry on with us and behind us. In collector friendship, Kelly H.

[slados28]

As always a confusing debate to follow --- could you please post the 8-10 decals you consider genuine based on in depth examination and reasoning based on what we already know about period decal construction? "Vet purchased" is fine and all for the one picking it up first hand but it's another thing entirely for the ones picking it up second hand with nothing but that tired old line backing it up.

I also have to say that I personally feel the recent revelations are the result of exactly what you propose; " professional attitude, independent thinking, hard work, reading and research"... to me this will always be infinitely better than solely trusting a second hand story from a seller.
The thread I read on the topic did not "attack" any one individual in any way, as far as I could tell...its author actually went out of his way to avoid doing so --- it merely exposed and debunked a lot of helmets with decals that people previously thought were authentic.

I see no other victims here than the ones that have paid through the nose for helmets bearing fake SS decals.