rzm helmet

Collector11 · 12-01-2017, 09:57 PM

i have gained more knowledge about SS helmets and decals, but i remember that a member told me that SS Rzm helmets have no washers on the interior of the lugs. i recently looked at the SS helmets of the famous weitze from weitze.net he has a double decal RZM SS helmet but i noticed that that helmet has a round across the inside of the vent lug, this is a washer,right? Am i horribly mistaken about washers or am i right this time i dont know if i can place alink here but if you go to his website then to ss helmets it should be there for 12K EU, is this a fake?

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 12-01-2017 09:57 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

Collector11 · 12-01-2017, 10:05 PM

and the liner just seems a bit off and the rzm and ss stamps are clearly visible and have no fading? if its fake,everyone can make a mistake once.

**helmet2id** · 12-02-2017, 12:35 PM

I think it was my post that you were referencing. The washers I mentioned are on the inside of the shell, not the exterior. i just checked the site and I think what you were looking at were the exterior vent lugs. On WWI shells these vent lugs were installed for dual purposes - first, as vents to allow air to circulate through the interior of the shell; second, to support the stirnpanzer (steel brow plate). Brow plates were only made in one size. The helmet shells were made in the following sizes:60, 62, 64, 66, 68, and (I think) 70. To make the brow plate fit the vent lugs on the helmets sized 60, 62, and 64 were "stepped", like the lugs on the "RZM" shell you were looking at. The vent lugs on the bigger WWI combat shells were not stepped. The presence of stepped lugs on the helmet you were looking at is a dead give a way that the helmet is NOT a real RZM shell. Brow plates were taken out of service in about 1917 and none were manufactured after that. RZM helmets were made in the 1930's and since it was never contemplated that they would be coupled with brow plates the vent lugs on REAL RZM helmets were NEVER stepped. The stepped vent lugs on the one on the dealer site you were looking at, and the crisp "RZM" and "SS" stamps, as well as the positions of the liner split pins, all clearly reveal that the helmet is a fake. I will look at my old pictures and see if I have some of the interior of a real RZM shell to show you what I mean about the absence of washers on the vent lugs on the inside of the shell. Jim G.

**helmet2id** · 12-02-2017, 01:09 PM

Here is the only picture I could find. You can see the interior of the vent lug above the leather liner band. If you have a WWI shell available look at the interior of the lug and you will see the washer I mentioned. The RZM helmet is in storage. I will try to pull it out later this weekend and get some better shots. Jim G.

**helmet2id** · 12-02-2017, 01:18 PM

Here are some shots of the exterior of a real RZM helmet. Compare the locations of the liner attachment rivets to the locations of the split pins on the helmet on the dealer's site. You should be able to see that the liner attachment rivets on the RZM are higher and closer to the vent lugs than the split pins on the dealer's piece. The pictures also show that the vent lugs are not stepped even though the RZM shell is a smaller size. Jim G.

**Larry C** · 12-02-2017, 01:45 PM

Hi Jim...and this is where I become the student..please bear with me.

Regarding the RZM which alot of us know represents the Reichzeugmeisterei ( RZM )
I thought these helmets were branded otherwise with number or letter types. What makes this a Reichzeugmeisterei Helmet ?
Is this what RZM stands for?

Maybe Im a bit off..but if I have a question like this..I know others who are not versed in Steel helmets would raise the same question.

I am sitting and ready to hear the teacher

Regards Larry

**helmet2id** · 12-02-2017, 02:23 PM

Hi Larry, RZM helmets are interwar commercially produced M18 style helmets. Kelly Hicks has a chapter on them in his book SS Steel (pages 86 - 98). (In Baer's bible these helmets are discussed on pages 173-178.) According to Kelly they came in 2 sizes, and were of fairly poor quality. They were stamped with RZM and SS over the wearer's ears on the interior of the apron. They were based in design on the WWI M18 shell, but were noticeable different in several respects, including the placement of the liner attachment rivets. On RZM helmets the liners were not attached with split pins. Rather, the liners were attached with hollow core rivets. The holes for these rivets were higher on the shell than the holes for the split pins that affixed the liners to the WWI M16 and M18 shells, and the two front holes were closer to the vent lugs than those on the WWI counterparts. Anyway, the descriptions of RZM helmets in the Hicks and Baer books will better explain these rare helmets. Jim G.

**real steel** · 12-02-2017, 04:20 PM

Also to add to what Jim says, the helmet on "said site" I believe the paint & decals are post war. The SS rune decal from what little is shown, does not show characteristics of a proper Pocher decal. The Nat. shield looks to be possibly original, but post war applied. the vertical striations, cracks are signs of an old, dried out decal that was post war applied. Those vertical "stress cracks" are results of just that.

The paint does not look period either. No patina on a shell that would have been painted some 80 years ago & also, from the few examples of RZM helmets I have seen, the shell markings are too deep & sharp than what they should be.

Collector11 · 12-02-2017, 06:10 PM

i have 3 ww1 helmets weitze is a world famous dealer well in europe he is quite populair, so its a fake then? I gained alot of knowledge

**real steel** · 12-02-2017, 06:27 PM

by kaibos11

i have 3 ww1 helmets weitze is a world famous dealer well in europe he is quite populair, so its a fake then? I gained alot of knowledge

I would not own that helmet.

If this was an original period helmet with unquestionable paint & decal application that was "vetted" or authenticated by many advanced helmet collectors, in this condition, decals & paint, should be selling for about $20K or it would have been sold already at his $12euro price tag.

I don't "Dealer bash". Never bought anything from him & did not even know about his site until recently. I have seen the assortment of items he spreads out at the SOS each year & it is quite impressive. Not sure how many tables he reserves, but he does bring some spectacular items to the show. That's all I know about him