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View Poll Results: Choose the SS Pocher decal that is real.

61. You may not vote on this poll
  • Helmet 1

    4 6.56%
  • Helmet 2

    5 8.20%
  • Helmet 3

    34 55.74%
  • Helmet 4

    8 13.11%
  • I have no bloody idea.

    10 16.39%
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SS Decal quiz

Article about: Alright, I'm pleased with that Looking forward to the ET quiz Doug.

  1. #71

    Default Re: SS Decal quiz

    With what Samir said had me thinking( and before someone else says it, yes its rare ) but before Doug posted about the "sawtooth" effect NOT being present, i looked again at 2 and 3, I still think its 3, i believe the crazing effect on the runes and border gave a false impression of sawtoothing plus there is a very slight border to the runes which i thought doesnt occur with modern printing methods, having said this i am not just throwing a guess out there and seeing if it sticks, if i'm wrong then so be it, thats all a part of this learning process, sometimes you have to have courage in your convictions, wrong or not

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  3. #72

    Default Re: SS Decal quiz

    Had a long hard look at them, and my geuss it's the first decal that is real. Looking at the details, the rims, and even though its not to dammaged I think the first one is the real one.

  4. #73

    Default Re: SS Decal quiz

    When are the results due??
    I know its way past lunch time GMT.. LOL

  5. #74

    Default Re: SS Decal quiz

    We will never know!!!

  6. #75

    Default Re: SS Decal quiz

    Can't wait for Doug to chime in so he can hand me my iron cross.

  7. #76

    Default Re: SS Decal quiz

    Sorry guys, I was planning on the big reveal at lunch today if time permitted, which it did not so here goes;

    First, the fakes in this test/quiz were very difficult. Standing alone a lot of people including advanced collectors may get fooled. Having an onscreen comparable certainly helps, at least I find this to be the case.

    Second, those that looked for details along the borders/edge of the decals - my hat is off to you sirs!!! The borders are an oft neglected area of SS decal authentication and an area the fakers mess up time and time again.

    Third, those that looked for matching wear decal to shell - three cheers! An important area to examine as reproduction decals are often aged to appear damaged and old but often fail that litmus test of true wear and age matching the helmet. That said, in each of these cases the wear is very close to the shell with the fakes. The real one, matches perfectly however.

    Fourth, those that saw the tell tale border in one of the decals, take a bow. This is a critical area for most Pocher decals, not all however, but is one of the clues. That said, the border is now also being faked, via printing methods and also by a pulver underlay.

    Finally, those that took that "5 second test", hip hip hooray. A real SS decal screams at you. If not something is wrong. A decal that needs a lot of explaining usually has something wrong with it or has damage in key visual reference points, bad photography, something! Samir for example psyched himself out with an explanation. But it was a very good fake he was comparing to so I forgive him LOL.

    So....the real one if you haven't figured it out by now is in fact, decal #3. 49% of the respondents were correct - thats great! Many pleaded the 5th, and that is great as well, because guessing is the first error in judgement and from that comes the explanations and excuses for choosing wrong when real money has been laid down. If your gonna lay down the cash, make sure you know what your buying is real with SS helmets. For those that chose 1, 2 and 4 do not despair. Many before you who are experienced collectors also have done so but with real money myself included. That is the hard price we pay called experience. If I can pass along assistance and help those learn then thats more who are better armed to deter the fakers and I can give back to the community in that small way.

    So, lets get to what is fake and why.

    Decal #1, the infamous "Crushed Glass Fake". The origin of this decal is supposed to come from the USA and some believe this to be a real decal today, probably because they've many thousands of dollars tied up in one or more of them. However the killer for this decal is the extremely sharp and pointed lines, something fakers today have made great strides to correct. The super sharp rune tips, the uncompromising lines of the runes and flat thin print directly overtop of pulver are the signs this one is trouble. The milky white pulver are also a red flag but as you can see by the Nick Herpoel photo of the Bielski decal, the whitish pulver is not a killer as depending on the picture, lighting and oxidization of the decal itself, pulver can tone in many shades. One thing to remember that this decal is almost always found in "mint" condition on helmets. And for those that follow my threads and read the SS decal thread, Pochers on M40/42 helmets that are not reissues, reverse decals or double runics are almost always post war applied or outright fakes. This helmet is an M40 or M42 if you look at the vent hole.

    Decal #2 and Decal #4. As many people chose decal 2 and 4 and that is because...they are the same fake. While the printing itself is slightly different, the decals both have the identical "fingerprints" when magnified including a strange rune tip I've only ever seen on this fake decal, which I have had 3 of in hand. These are 2 of the 3 I have had in hand. They were believed to be a variant of a Pocher, an early type as there is no straight lines, sharp runes or sawtooth print. In fact the print type is very close to period decals. However, the bottom decal, is on a postwar fibre rim shell. And the party decal these fakes always, and I mean always, come with are also a fake but age very convincingly. The origin is said to be Italy. Most of these fakes I have seen on black SS helmets, postwar fibre rim or M34 period painted helmets that were used for fire or police as no decal helmets. Very old fakes which today show great age and toning thus they have fooled a LOT of people. The clues to look for again are in the borders. The borders have soft corners, and the interior runes have soft rounded edges. The lines tend to angle incorrectly as well, in decal #2 the left lower rune note the imperfection I am talking about. Also no borders within the runes themselves. By itself not a deal breaker but combined with everything else just one of the things that identify this decal as a bad one.

    Decal #3 is the real one. Note the runes perfect alignment to one another, softer lines, sharp interior break, nice crazing, internal border of the runes, ink print, sharper borders, pulver composition, decal to shell relationship, and wear matching the shell. Everything adds up 100%.

    Finally, as was mentioned by Corey when he said Ive been puzzled, its because photos alone just cannot 100% authenticate most decals anymore. You need it in hand. You need at least a 10x loupe and prefer a 20X loupe and look for details like soft breaks, too sharp a print, sawtooth edging, anything that doesn't look "right". A digital microscope you can save photos and email or post them as well. 200x is a whole different type of analysis but if you dont know what real is you wont know what fake is either.

    So with all 4 of these, an in hand is the - final - test of authenticity. Thanks for taking part, it was enjoyable to read and I will do an ET decal quiz not today, but on the weekend for everyone. That will be a tough one I promise LOL.

  8. #77

    Default Re: SS Decal quiz

    There goes my ek1.

  9. #78

    Default Re: SS Decal quiz

    It was an excellent Quiz, with an equally excellent final explanation. I learned a lot about SS decals and a lot about myself.


  10. #79

    Default Re: SS Decal quiz

    Quote by SSamir View Post
    There goes my ek1.
    ITs ok Samir, you get a wound badge in black. Mine however is in Gold for decal #2 as I bought that helmet a long time ago thinking it was real but proved it was a very good fake if not the best one ever made in my opinion. It took years to prove but prove it I did, even Kelly Hicks agrees and new knowledge and empowerment has come out of it, being passed along here.

    So like I said, dont despair but you psyched yourself out brother! You were right with your first choice, the 5 second test! Always go with the 5 second rule!

    PS the helmet seen with decal #2 has been in some of the worlds top SS or helmet collections...

  11. #80

    Default Re: SS Decal quiz

    OK, Doug, we are ready to move on to the next quiz, and I can't wait.

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