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SS Metal Visor Insignia Skull & Eagle Identification List

Article about: HELPFUL IDENTIFICATION MATERIAL SS METAL INSIGNIAS The list below is intended to list all of the 'known' skull ¹ and metal visor eagle ² markings and their makers where they have been identi

  1. #1

    Default SS Metal Visor Insignia Skull & Eagle Identification List

    HELPFUL IDENTIFICATION MATERIAL



    SS METAL INSIGNIAS

    The list below is intended to list all of the 'known' skull ¹ and metal visor eagle ² markings and their makers where they have been identified. This list is subject to change and should not be completely relied upon for a final determination of a good (or fake) item. Please do use it as an intial checklist only. Further advice regarding a piece in my opinion is a must ; which will benefit everyone in the long run.





    SKULL INSIGNIAS ¹

    Unmarked - Deschler & Sohn
    GES.GESCH. - Deschler & Sohn
    RZM GES GESCH - (no periods) Deschler & Sohn (RZM STAMPED ON BACK LOWER LEFT JAW)
    RZM D.&S.M. GES.GESCH. - Deschler & Sohn (RZM STAMPED ON BACK LOWER LEFT JAW)
    RZM 52 - Deschler & Sohn
    RZM M1/52 - Deschler & Sohn
    RZM 254/42 - Deschler & Sohn
    RZM 499/41 - Fritz Zimmermann
    RZM M1/24 - Overhoff & Cie.
    GES.GESCH. - E. W. Assmann & Söhne
    Unmarked - E. W. Assmann & Söhne
    S.P.40 - Unknown possibly Overhoff & Cie.

    EAGLE INSIGNIAS ²

    RZM M1/52 - Deschler & Sohn
    RZM SS 155/36 - E. W. Assmann & Söhne
    RZM SS 155/38 - E. W. Assmann & Söhne
    RZM SS 155/42 - E. W. Assmann & Söhne
    RZM M1/17 - E. W. Assmann & Söhne
    Unmarked - E. W. Assmann & Söhne
    RZM M1/24 - Overhoff & Cie
    RZM M1/72 - Fritz Zimmermann
    RZM SS 499/42 M1/72 - Fritz Zimmermann
    RZM SS M1/167 - Augustin Hicke
    RZM M1/8 - Ferdinand Wagner
    RZM SS 475/39 - Ferdinand Wagner
    RZM SS 475/42 - Ferdinand Wagner
    RZM 394-35 - Unknown
    E.S.PF. - Unknown

    Hope this information is found useful to the community; I will try to update the current information with a possible EK1 & EK2 list.

    Happy Huntin'

    Empereur ®
    Last edited by Empereur; 08-05-2008 at 07:19 PM.

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  3. #2

    Default Re: SS Metal Visor Insignia Skull & Eagle Identification List

    Some thoughts:

    The unmarked skull usually attributed to Deschler is just that (attributed to Deschler). There is no evidence that it was made by Deschler, and, in fact, there are some distinct differences between these and ALL other Deschlers, which lead us to believe that it was actually made by someone else, as yet unknon.

    I am not aware of a GES. GESCH. Deschler without the RZM mark.

    Of the Deschlers which are marked RZM GES. GESCH., I am not certain that there were both a version with periods and one without periods. Rather, I tend to believe that some simply have less detail (due to worn dies), leaving the periods difficult or impossible to see.

    I have seen no evidence that an original M1/17 Assmann skull ever existed. I would remove it from the list, rather than calling it unconfirmed.

    You have the 155/36 Assmann eagle listed twice; I believe you meant for the second to be the 155/38.

    I would call the E.S. PF. (no period between the P and F, by the way) unknown, but not unconfirmed. I believe there is now adequate evidence to confirm its originality, even though the maker is as yet only speculation.

    Best,
    Brad

  4. #3

    Default Re: SS Metal Visor Insignia Skull & Eagle Identification List

    Thanks for the comment Brad, I'll update the list.

  5. #4

    Default Re: SS Metal Visor Insignia Skull & Eagle Identification List

    Thought i would help out with the EK numbers

    Hope this is of some help

    1 Deschler &Sohn Munchen 2 C.E. Junker Berlin 3 Wilheim Deumer Ludenscheld 4 Steinhauer & Luck Ludenscheld
    5 Hermann Wernstein Jena-Lobstedt 6 Fritz Zimmermann Stuttgart
    7 Paul Meyhauer Berlin 8 Ferdinand Hoffstadter Bonn a. Rhein
    9 Liefergsmeinschaft Scmuckhandwerker Pforzheim 10 Foerster & Barth Pforzheim
    11 Grossmann & Co. Wien 12 Frank & Reif Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen
    13 Gustav Brehmer Markneukirchen/Sa 14 L. Chr. Lauer Nurnberg-W
    15 Friedrich Orth Wien 16 Alols Rettenmaler Scwablsch-Gmund
    17 (Unknown) 18 Karl Wurster K.G. Markneukirchen/Sa
    19 E. Ferd Weidmann Frankfurt/Main 20 C.F. Zimmermann Pforzheim
    21 Gebr. Godet & Co. Berlin 22 Boerger & Co. Berlin
    23 Arbeitsgemeinschaft fur Heereshedarf darf In der Graveur-u. Ziseleurinnung
    24 Arbeitsgemeinschaft der Hanauer Plaket-ten-hersteller
    25 Arbeitsgemeinschaft der Graveur-Gold-und Silberschemiede-Innungen
    26 B. H. Mayer's Kunst-prageanstalt Pforzheim 27 Anton Schenkl's Nachf. Wien
    28 Eugen Schmidthaussier Pforzheim 29 Hauptmunzamt Berlin
    30 Hauptmunzamt Wien 31 Hans Gnad Wien
    32 W. Hobachter Wien 33 Friedrich Linden Ludenscheld
    34 Willy Annetsberger Munchen 35 F.W. Assmann & Sohn Ludenscheld
    36 Bury & Leonhard Hanau a. M 37 Ad. Baumeister Ludenscheld
    38 (Unknown) 39 Rudolf Berge Gablonz a.d.N.
    40 Berg & Nolte Ludenscheld 41 Geb. Bender Oberstein/Nahe
    42 Biedermann & Co. Oberkassel b/Bonn 43 Julius Bauer Sohne Zella Mehlisi/Thur. 44 Jakob Bengel Idar/Oberdonau 45 Franz Jungwirth Wien
    46 Hans Doppler Wels/Oberdonau 47 Erhard & Sohne A.G. Schwabisch Gmund 48 Richard Feix Gablonz a.d.N. 49 Josef Feix Sohne Gablonz a.d.N.
    50 Karl Gschiermeister Wien 51 Eduard Goriach & Sohne Gablonz/N.
    52 Gottlieb & Wagner Ldar/Oberstein 53 Glaser & Sohne Dresden
    54 (Unknown) 55 J.E. Hammer & Sohne Geringswalde 56 Robert Hauschild Pforzheim
    57 Karl Hensler Pforzheim 58 Artur Jakel & Co. Gablonz/N. 59 Louis Keller Oberstein
    60 Katz & Deyhle Pforzheim 61 Rudolf A. Karneth & Sohne Gablonz a.N.
    62 Kerbach & Oesterhelt Dresden 63 Franz Klast & Sohne Gablonz a.N.
    64 Gottl. Fr. Keck & Sohn Pforzheim 65 Klein & Quenzer A.G. Idar/Oberstein
    66 Freidrich Keller Oberstein 67 H. Krelsel Gablonz a.N. 68 Alfred Knobloch Gablonz a.N. 69 Alols Klammer Innsbruck 70 Lind & Meyrer Oberstein a.d.N.
    71 Rudolf Leukert Oberstein a.d.N. 72 Franz Lipp Pforzheim 73 Frank Manert Gablonz a.N. 74 Carl Maurer Sohn Oberstein/Nahe 75 (Unknown)
    76 Ernst L. Muller Pforzheim 77 Bayer. Hauptmunzamt Munchen
    78 Gustav Miksch Gablonz/N. 79 (Unknown) 80 G.H. Osang Dresden
    81 Overhoff & Cie Ludenscheid 82 Augustin Prager Gablonz a.N.
    83 Emll Peukert Gablonz a.N. 84 Carl Poellath Schrobenhausen
    85 Julius Pletsch Gablonz/N. 86 Paulmann & Crone Ludenscheid
    87 Roman Palme Gablonz a.N. 88 Werner Redo Saarlautern
    89 Rudolf Richter Schlag 244 b. Gablonz 90 Aug. F. Richter K.G. Hamburg
    91 Josef Rossler & Co. Gablonz a.d.N. 92 Josef Rucker & Sohn Gablonz a.d.N. 93 Richard Simm & Sohne Gablonz a.d.N. 94 (Unknown)
    95 Adolf Scholze Grunwald a.d.N. 96 (Unknown) 97 (Unknown)
    98 Rudolf Souval Wien 99 Schwertner & Cle. Eggenberg
    100 Rudolf Wachtler & Lange Mittweida 101 Rudolf Tam Gablonz a.d.N.
    102 Philipp Turks Ww. Wien 103 Aug. G. Tam Gablonz a.d.N. 104 Hein. Ulbricht's Ww. Kaufing b/Schwanenstadt 105 Heinrich Vogt Pforzheim
    106 Bruder Schneider A.G. Wien 107 Carl Wild Hamburg 108 Arno Wallpach Salzburg 109 Walter & Hentein Gablonz a.d.N. 110 Otto Zappe Gablonz a.d.N. 111 Ziemer & Sohne Oberstein 112 Argentor Werke Rust & Hetzel Wien 113 Hermann Aurich Dresden 114 Ludwig Bertsch Karlsruhe
    115 (Unknown) 116 Frunke & Brunninghaus Ludenscheld 117 Hugo Lang Wiesenthal a.N. 118 August Menzs & Sohn Wien 119 (Unknown)
    120 Franz Petzl Wien 121 (Unknown) 122 JJ. Stahl Strassburg 123 Beck, Hassinger & Co. Strassburg 124 Rudolf Schanes Wien 125 Eugen Gauss Pforzheim 126 Eduard Hahn Oberstein/Nahe 127 Moritz Hausch A.G. Pforzheim 128 S. Jablonski G.m.b.H. Posen 129 Fritz Kohm Pforzheim
    130 Wilh. Schroder & Co. Ludenscheld 131 Heinrich Wander Gablonz
    132 Franz Reischauer Oberstein 133 (Unknown) 134 Otto Klein & Co. Hanau
    135 Julius Moser sen Oberstein 136 J.Wagner & Sohn Berlin 137 J.H. Werner Berlin 138 Julius Maurer Oberstein 139 Hymmen & Co. Ludenscheid
    140 Schauerte & Hohfeld Ludenscheid 141 Sohni, Heubach & Co Oberstein
    142 A.D. Schwerdt Stuttgart
    Cheers
    John


    When you're wounded and left of Afghanistan's plains,
    An' the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Jest roll to your rifle an' blow out your brains,
    An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." - Rudyard Kipling

  6. #5

    Default

    Hi, could anyone tell me if the ES PF skulls exist or not please?

  7. #6

    Default

    No , they do not exist as originals .
    They turned up some years ago , but are in fact reproductions of the Overhoff type skull .
    And indeed the same type fake can be found marked M1/24 , note the wrong type attachments on both .
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    Attached Images Attached Images  

  8. #7

    Default

    They are produced together with a fake " E.S. PF." marked eagle ..
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	878005   Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #8

    Default

    Here is a real ESPF eagle (not my property)
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	878193   Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #9

    Default

    Thank you, that was very helpful. Every time I buy a skull I always seem to buy rubbish !

  11. #10

    Default

    It is more than normal I can assure you. SS cap insignia are like fata morganas these days.

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