SS Officer Skull

**Datrus** · 09-10-2011, 09:31 PM

Damn... There is a lot of variation in 1st pattern skulls. Compared to the skulls BenVK shows, i think the one originally posted does not look like any of them. The "seam" running down between the eyes is not so clear in Ben's as in 3volv3 skull. I'm not doubting the expert judgement, just amazed of the variation. I Have a lot to learn.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 09-10-2011 09:31 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**BenVK** · 09-10-2011, 09:31 PM

Matt, put it this way.

If you can proove without doubt via period documentation that only one particular design pattern of this Totenkopf was ever issued/worn by the SS, I'll send the one I have to you free of charge.

**ToxicGas** · 09-10-2011, 09:51 PM

I'm not suggesting only one design of this Totenkopf was issued to or worn by the SS, I am very aware that there were many kinds. What I am saying is that I know the ones you show and that I have pictured in this post DID come before the SS, but may or may not have been worn by them.
The one I just bought, is what I believe to be an early SS skull, not a tradition badge. As I have said, if this is not the case then I will accept that. If anyone can tell me where to buy the same kind as mine for cheaper, I'll gladly listen. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just saying what I am under the impression of.

Mat

**BenVK** · 09-10-2011, 10:16 PM

by ToxicGas

I'm not suggesting only one design of this Totenkopf was issued to or worn by the SS

But you want us to confirm that the one you bought that was declared as an SS Totenkopf from the person you bought it from for $250 is an SS TK and could not be anything else, right?

I'm not having a go at you, I'm trying to educate you and open your eyes. If I told you that all of the ones I bought for 45 dollars each were dug up in Berlin a few years ago, would you know what I'm talking about? would it make a difference? or would you rather just trust in what dealers tell you? In the past week, I've had people asking me whether the SS sidecap I was selling was authentic. How ridiculous is that? Not knowing what your buying and trusting the word of the seller? As if the seller is going to say, actualy, now that you've asked, no, it's not original.

Same goes for asking for opinions here or on any website. Why trust what I'm telling you? Obviously you dont trust what I've told you from what you've written and that a good thing. Don't trust anyone, only trust yourself. Unfortunately though, that means a hell of a lot of hard work and research which no one seems to want to do these days.

**ToxicGas** · 09-10-2011, 10:36 PM

by BenVK

But you want us to confirm that the one you bought that was declared as an SS Totenkopf from the person you bought it from for $250 is an SS TK and could not be anything else, right?

Yes, I realise now it seems like a stretch, but for all I know it may be well known that certain varieties were made specifically for SS use. That is what I have previously thought was the case- derivatives of the tradition badges, created for the SS (Before the adoption of the 2nd pattern skull).

I do know what you are talking about in regards to those dug up in Berlin: mine were too, I believe they are from the same source. I do not simply trust in what a dealer says, hence my many posts on here. I made my purchase, paying as much as I did, based on:
-The dealer's good reputation.
-My ability to return it for a full refund if necessary.
-The belief (which may well be incorrect) that this variety of Totenkopf was specifically an SS insignia.

If I am wrong on my last point, then I am still happy with my purchase if it is generally agreed that the piece is genuine and not easily found cheaper. I am collecting Totenkopfs in general, not just SS examples, although they do interest me more. The reason for my desire to know if my new acquisition was an SS badge, is that I'd rather be putting most of my money into those as my initial collecting interest was Third Reich items.

Mat

**BenVK** · 09-10-2011, 10:42 PM

Then we are on the same page and I wish you the best except, don't ever ever trust what the seller tells you. Learn for yourself.

**ToxicGas** · 09-10-2011, 11:02 PM

Thanks, I will continue to endeavour to. Meanwhile, I'd appreciate it if someone can set me straight on 1st pattern skulls- were ANY of them exclusive to the SS? It seems I have gone for too long making assumptions.

Mat

**BOB COLEMAN** · 09-10-2011, 11:25 PM

by ToxicGas

Thanks, I will continue to endeavour to. Meanwhile, I'd appreciate it if someone can set me straight on 1st pattern skulls- were ANY of them exclusive to the SS? It seems I have gone for too long making assumptions.

Mat

Mat-
i do not think there was any thought given to having one certain pattern of the jawless totenkopf being exclusive to the SS. In the early days, much of the uniforms and insignia were recycled items from their original use by the SA and the SS. It was only after Hitler came to power and the RZM had approval over anything produced for the political formations that we begin to see standardization. Even then, we still find certain characteristics from one manufacturer to another. In the case of your piece, the verdict can only be conjecture.

**BenVK** · 09-10-2011, 11:43 PM

Amen!

**ToxicGas** · 09-10-2011, 11:56 PM

Thanks Bob. I suppose then with any first pattern Totenkopf, it is impossible to tell whether it was attached to / produced for an SS uniform or not unless it was removed from one... which I know carries a death sentence if done today (Friedrich, fear not!) and as such, I should treat them as insignia that *could* have been SS worn. Friedrich's many provided photos of skulls in-situ are evidence that many kinds of these skulls were indeed used by the SS, probably all varieties to some degree?

In future, if I want a guaranteed SS Totenkopf I'll go for more of the safe option... the 2nd pattern.

Mat