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Zinc Overhoff M1/24 Skull - Opinions, please?

Article about: I know what you're thinking... "Not another skull authenticity post!" I just recently became interested in this fascinating hobby, and I'm the type of person that attempts to learn

  1. #1

    Default Zinc Overhoff M1/24 Skull - Opinions, please?

    I know what you're thinking... "Not another skull authenticity post!" I just recently became interested in this fascinating hobby, and I'm the type of person that attempts to learn as much as possible about a given subject before I try my hand at it. After reading through many threads on this site, I concluded that the people who frequently post here are quite knowledgeable. I decided to join because it seemed like a great place to learn more about the hobby. This is my first post, so please be gentle!

    I'm particularly interested in SS totenkopf badges, and I was intrigued (but not surprised) when I discovered how often these little pins are faked! I have been doing my best to learn about the different characteristics unique to each manufacturer of these skulls, and I often browse auction sites to try to spot the numerous fakes. The pictures and descriptions on this forum have provided me with a lot of information in this regard. While playing "spot the fake," I stumbled upon what I believe to be an authentic zinc Overhoff M1/24, so I'm going to post a few pictures (with my own observations) and see what you guys think!

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    The front of the skull has the characteristic Overhoff appearance. I tend to think of these skulls as more "simplistic" and less realistic than the Deschler skulls, although they are still fascinating. The eyes are very smooth, and the right one is almost perfectly circular. This skull also has the triangular nose hole that I associate with Overhoff skulls. The teeth are clearly defined, and they have the characteristic square shape to them. The wear on this piece looks authentic to me, and I do not see any evidence that this might be a cast reproduction. I believe I am correct in assuming that this is a die-stamped zinc skull.

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    The back of the skull, in my opinion, looks authentic. It appears fairly smooth (although zinc can sometimes appear "gritty" in photographs), and it has the Overhoff & Cie. "M1/24" marking. The suture and tooth detail on the backside is consistent with those of authentic Overhoff skulls that I've seen on this site. This skull features the square "mashed-in" pin attachment points that were used on the M1/24 models, and I have seen the notched brass pins on other authentic M1/24 skulls.

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    The side view shows the typical "chunky" appearance that I associate with Overhoff skulls.

    So, what do you guys think? Is this an authentic zinc Overhoff M1/24 original? Was my assessment correct? I'd love to hear your opinions. Thanks!
    Last edited by daveward; 02-06-2015 at 05:57 AM.

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  3. #2

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ID:	799462compare....
    damit, basta.

  4. #3

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    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    compare
    Friedrich, you have an amazing collection and I appreciate your response, but I have to admit that of all the posts on this forum that I've read, your replies have always seemed the most cryptic to me. You have a unique way of responding to requests for opinions on these skulls without actually giving an opinion at all... I've noticed that when someone asks for some help authenticating a skull, you often provide a lot of pictures of various types of skulls (usually mounted on caps) and simply tell the original poster to compare them. I am sure that I'm not alone when I say that this is rather confusing. I can never tell if you've asked someone to compare because you've found differences between the skull in question and the pictures you post, or similarities.

    I think that the skull I've found is quite similar to the one you've posted, although yours is in much better condition. You've also chosen to post an Overhoff that lacks tooth definition on the backside (as some do), so the comparison is a little harder. The comments I listed under each picture are based on comparisons I've made with various other pictures on this forum (including your own), as I was trying to explain the similarities I've noted between the one I posted and others that are deemed authentic. Would you mind providing your own thoughts with regard to the comparison so that I can better understand the intent of your reply? Thanks!

  5. #4

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ID:	799478or compare this item. This is a cupal badge.
    damit, basta.

  6. #5

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    My I say something that is really very simple: I aspire to no serious expertise in SS cap badges. I do not collect loose cap insignia.
    I also cannot see many of the details that others profess to see, nor can I associate myself with certain theories and generalizations which I find to be questionable in threads on these badges.
    As a rule, I always try to enclose real items, or surely what I believe to the best of my ability to be pre May 1945 things.
    I would also note that Mr. Stonemint engages in as much as a deductive process in this space as do I. As do others.
    damit, basta.

  7. #6

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ID:	799479another example of a cap we have analyzed before. This cap is not my property.
    damit, basta.

  8. #7

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    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    My I say something that is really very simple: I aspire to no serious expertise in SS cap badges. I do not collect loose cap insignia.
    Fair enough. You just seem like a guy who knows what he's talking about (and you certainly have more experience in this hobby than I do), so if you saw some differences that indicated to you that the skull was a fake, I would want to know what they are so that I can improve my skills. However, I think they look very similar. If you agree, please let me know!

  9. #8

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ID:	799485I think your badge is real, but no one can really say so, in my view, unless they actually hold the thing in hand and examine it with a lupe.

    The Overhoff badge is widely faked. And it well faked, as near as I can tell.

    There is a high tech arms race with badge fakers who reverse engineer our pictures and pirate knowledge to no good end, with a speed-up in the challenge response cycle.

    But, let me be blunt, I am not a badge collector. I collect black SS uniforms and some grey SS peaked caps. I have done so for an excess of forty years, and I have collected Nazi regalia for fifty two years.
    damit, basta.

  10. #9

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    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    I think your badge is real, but no one can really say so, in my view, unless they actually hold the thing in hand and examine it with a lupe.
    Thank you for providing your thoughts on the matter. I greatly appreciate your opinion! I would jump at the chance to examine one of these in person, but unfortunately (and likely since I am so new to the hobby), I have no idea where to do so. I live in a large city, but aside from a few antique stores, I have no clue where to look for items such as these in person. Any suggestions?

    I, too, recognize that sharing information and comparisons like this is both a good and bad thing. On one hand, we greatly improve our knowledge of these items and our ability to spot real ones, while on the other hand, we give fakers valuable information on how to improve their fakes... It's a tricky situation!

    Thanks for taking the time to look this one over, even if it's not the type of thing you normally collect!

  11. #10

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    The skull on the first post is original.

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