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Allg / SS VT tunic questions: medical pockets, sleeve linings, stamps

Article about: I'd like to start a long discussion about 3 questions. Simply but interesting i hope to make 1) the double "medical pockets" on SS tunics (not behind but on frontal zone) 2) lining

  1. #1

    Default Allg / SS VT tunic questions: medical pockets, sleeve linings, stamps

    I'd like to start a long discussion about 3 questions.
    Simply but interesting i hope to make

    1) the double "medical pockets" on SS tunics (not behind but on frontal zone)

    2) linings of allg/ VT sleeve

    3) stamps (numbers, not only the va stamps)

    I've elaborate some personal opionions on these 3 interesting feature but i would share with you.

    Example of discussion: i saw these double pockets also to police and some tropical SS tunics.
    In your opinion which % of early and later allg/vt tunics have double medical pockets?

    Lining, i saw, kile mine some tunics with brown lining and not the classic used also by WSS officier tunic.
    Any notice of this feature?

    i hope to start a nice and lovely discussion...

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Allg / SS VT tunic questions: medical pockets, sleeve linings, stamps

    I would offer the following, based on forty-four years of collecting and the ownership of these items.
    a.) the medical pockets appear, more or less, on the issued tunics that seem to have emerged ca. 1935 or 1936 and were issued more or less through 1940.
    these pockets were for a first aid kit, and are found in most German uniforms of varying types.
    b.) the lining of the sleeve in these issued uniforms, made by contract, more or less have grey cotton lining, but there are exceptions.
    c.) the stamps are: size stamps, either in such normal Konfektionsgroessen as 50 or 52, or in the military size markings, which are much more precise, chest size, length, etc.
    German garments come in normal sizes; sizes for tall and slender; sizes for short and stocky.
    Further stamps exist for issuance or quartermaster control, i.e. VA stamps.
    In some instances, though prohibited, the maker placed its name in addition to RZM and VA tags.
    In other instances, the bolt of cloth had an RZM mark, and it is found as well.
    All of these things are illustrated in my posts here.

    Tailored uniforms are, of course, different, and tend not to have the medical pockets; they have more or less few or no stamps at all, being procured by different means; the lining of sleeves in tailored items varies, and is like that found in any other tailored German uniform of the era; the lining is silken; rayon; or cotton, and black, save for the sleeves. These latter type are faked, too, but never as well as a uniform of the period, which requires some skill to determine. The German houses are expert at selling good fakes, and they have acolytes in North America who merchandise them, too. The discovery of a cache of issued black SS uniforms of the VA/SS type ca. 1938 in 1990 in Russia, as well as Czechia has resulted in the reverse engineering of these as well made fakes. Janke has made them, too, in fact.

    The key is always tailoring in detail as well as textiles. While I hear horror stories of heaps of old textiles being reworked (something I am more inclined to embrace as having happened on a scale of note in the 1960s.... but at which time the amount of real stuff and its low price made such a thing less likely......) excellent textiles of the III. Reich type are no longer made; nor do persons have the training to do proper uniform tailoring. For evidence of this assertion, look around you. The Chinese or Pakistani or Ukrainians or whoever making this stuff now are not the Germans of the era, whose training was specific and focused and very long. Eight years, in fact, was the apprenticeship for tailor, which is impossible in Europe today.
    Tailored uniforms are often wholly unstamped or they have a tailor's label, and sometimes an RZM tag. Such tunics also have the further label with the name of the owner as well as date.

    Needless to say, all these things are faked, and sometimes with some accuracy.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 12-17-2012 at 01:19 AM.
    damit, basta.

  4. #3

    Default Re: Allg / SS VT tunic questions: medical pockets, sleeve linings, stamps

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ID:	436803One should also keep in mind that thousands of firms made German uniforms over a period in which the methods of manufacture were rationalized.
    Generalizations are theories, based on a small body of evidence.
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 12-17-2012 at 01:10 AM.
    damit, basta.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Allg / SS VT tunic questions: medical pockets, sleeve linings, stamps

    Name:  herstellung4.jpg
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Size:  40.7 KBSee here those cutting the cloth for uniforms. Today this kind of work is done by a machine, directed by a computer.
    damit, basta.

  6. #5

    Default Re: Allg / SS VT tunic questions: medical pockets, sleeve linings, stamps

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ID:	436836I learned a great deal from these books.....
    damit, basta.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Allg / SS VT tunic questions: medical pockets, sleeve linings, stamps

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ID:	436852You can too.....
    damit, basta.

  8. #7

    Default Re: Allg / SS VT tunic questions: medical pockets, sleeve linings, stamps

    a.) the medical pockets appear, more or less, on the issued tunics that seem to have emerged ca. 1935 or 1936 and were issued more or less through 1940.
    these pockets were for a first aid kit, and are found in most German uniforms of varying types.


    why, in your opinion, an allg. tunic needs 2 pockets? In the same times i mean 38 to 43 SS tunics were made with 1 pocket aid.
    But also in the same time tropical tunic were made with 2 such as some polizei tunics!


    b.) the lining of the sleeve in these issued uniforms, made by contract, more or less have grey cotton lining, but there are exceptions.

    How many tunics you own have an excepiotn lining?


    THANK YOU VERY MUCH FB FOR YOUR GENTLY REPLY!

  9. #8

    Default Re: Allg / SS VT tunic questions: medical pockets, sleeve linings, stamps

    Quote by Mauro C View Post
    a.) the medical pockets appear, more or less, on the issued tunics that seem to have emerged ca. 1935 or 1936 and were issued more or less through 1940.
    these pockets were for a first aid kit, and are found in most German uniforms of varying types.


    why, in your opinion, an allg. tunic needs 2 pockets? In the same times i mean 38 to 43 SS tunics were made with 1 pocket aid.
    But also in the same time tropical tunic were made with 2 such as some polizei tunics!


    b.) the lining of the sleeve in these issued uniforms, made by contract, more or less have grey cotton lining, but there are exceptions.

    How many tunics you own have an excepiotn lining?


    THANK YOU VERY MUCH FB FOR YOUR GENTLY REPLY!
    As to a.) I have utterly no idea. I am sure there is an answer somewhere, but I never thought about it, really.
    All I care is that the thing conforms more or less to a pattern I have observed.

    As to b.) I am not sure, as I do not look at the sleeves each day. I have several like this, and I think they all have grey cotton sleeves, actually.
    The issue with the sleeves, however, is simple. The real black tunics found by Geo Petersen in Russia decades ago generally have property stamps in the sleeves, and the cunning faker will remove the lining to eradicate the property stamp.
    I have seen these in many cases.
    It is a small point, but a not unimportant one.
    damit, basta.

  10. #9

    Default Re: Allg / SS VT tunic questions: medical pockets, sleeve linings, stamps

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Size:  19.5 KBHere are the grey cotton linings of which I speak.... the STV Oberbayern image of the Montur is Bruce Herman's, this was Bruce Frog's uniform that originally came from Shea. The lining of the sleeves looks white, but it is light grey. The marks in these examples are pretty typical of this 1936 1940 Montur, i.e. the issued piece sometimes for enlisted, but also worn by officers. Thanks to Bruce Herman and Bill Shea for these images.
    damit, basta.

  11. #10

    Default Re: Allg / SS VT tunic questions: medical pockets, sleeve linings, stamps

    You do not receive this level of expert analysis on the lord of the flies, Menschenfresserei site.

    - - Updated - -

    And my work is a fine tutorial for the refined faker, that's for sure.
    damit, basta.

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