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Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

Article about: by Frog As re: post #56, I remember this cap well. The fellow, BM, is still trading I believe, though I have not see much of interest lately. Thanks and it is a very nice cap, really. The pe

  1. #11

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Based on pics alone, I like what I see so far. I also agree with F-B--only an in-hand will confirm originality. I cannot speak to the insignia, however, and will defer to those more knowledgeable....
    NEC SOLI CEDIT

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  3. #12

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Let us hope it is truly authentic.

    We need some real material on these sites in order to stave off total boredom and despair.

    Seventy year old textiles are very distinct and poorly faked, in fact.

    There are several other tell tale signs with a cap like this, but I do not feel enjoined to spill all the beans all of the time.

    However, if a cap of this gravitas is for sale, then the buyer is obliged to seek a couple of expert opinions in view of the corrosive doubts that suffocate the collector bio tope.

    Mr. Chris' endorsement is a weighty one.
    damit, basta.

  4. #13

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Some further images of note. This stamp on the peak is well executed, but there are plainly many exceptions of haste and too much ink. There are other items to examine in this case, but I provide these images for Mr. Tricot for his edification and those others here of pure and noble purpose.
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    damit, basta.

  5. #14

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    I have to agree with B-B and Stonemint. I really like what I see, but would reserve total judgement until a careful, hands-on, is made. It is surely of the style I would like to see with black interior and flimsy celluloid sweat shield.

    Bob Hritz

  6. #15

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Quote by Bob Hritz View Post
    I have to agree with B-B and Stonemint. I really like what I see, but would reserve total judgement until a careful, hands-on, is made. It is surely of the style I would like to see with black interior and flimsy celluloid sweat shield.

    Bob Hritz
    Thanks. The flimsy sweat shield is quite a trade mark of these Wagner caps at a time of cost cutting, high production, shortages, and other factors that impinge on the whole. Read all the UM articles I posted elsewhere. You know, there are things that the German do not get right sometimes, despite the chemical industry, IG Farben and the like. Cellophane was the coming thing in 1938, but these later Wagner caps are sort of flimsy versus their earlier caps, which were more robust. The flimsy cellophane reminds me of the crummy rubber in German cars that goes to hell in uv light. That is, the climate in Lower Saxony is not the same as in Tempe, Arizona and the like.

    Mr. Tricot has gotten three mostly yes votes, but, once again, all of this requires the Fingerspitzengefuehl of all the senses and imponderables to make any firm generalization.

    Such is especially urgent when one spends five figures on such an item.
    damit, basta.

  7. #16
    ?

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Gentlemen, the comments are all greatly appreciated.

    In a fit of borderline criminal curiosity the owner has allowed the crisp, parchment like black lining to be ever so gently teased open in order to reveal details of this visor's construction.

    The scull crimps are just visible, the eagle crimps are only photographable with a laproscope. Pardon the less than perfect images, I imagine the photographer is more at ease with hiring professionals than with taking matters into his own hands.

    EDIT: F-B, may I assume the images you have graciously provided in post #13 depict a Clemens-Wagner? Also, in hand the leather sweat band is very thin, although still quite supple. Overall the visor does lack the rich robustness of earlier makes. The early visors are very solid and of better quality materials. This visor although visually stunning, does reflect the exigencies of rearmament as documented in the UM circulars.
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  8. #17

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Thanks for the further images. They seem alright to me.
    The cap images I appended today are of a Mueller cap, but they show the textiles, imperfect as these images are.... Wagner caps are pretty similar, especially as the cap I have attached here is of the same era as the senior leader cap you have included in this file.

    I have sent you a personal note with some of my other notations, which may or may not be relevant.

    We do not want to make this here into a tutorial for fakers, of course, but the fakers are at a loss to capture the skill of the original cap makers.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    damit, basta.

  9. #18
    ?

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Tricot - could be an over-inked stamp, of course. Never have seen this anomaly before; unusual for normally stringent production standards. Would think a general's cap would be perfect before delivery.

    Else, without the item in hand, it looks convincing from your photos, but there is a lot at stake here for sure.

  10. #19
    ?

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Quote by Frog View Post
    Tricot - could be an over-inked stamp, of course. Never have seen this anomaly before; unusual for normally stringent production standards. Would think a general's cap would be perfect before delivery.

    Else, without the item in hand, it looks convincing from your photos, but there is a lot at stake here for sure.
    I imagine the stamp is the last step of the manufacturing process. It has to be the equivalent of the irritating "Inspected by No. 9" tags found in new garments. As the hat was complete and worthy of stamping, it would seem wasteful to scrap it for a bad stamp. Though some poor apprentice may have been rebuked.

    It raises the question, "who inspected the inspectors."

    Of course all this is theory and guesswork to justify an anomaly. I for one, am more fascinated by exceptions than rules.

  11. #20

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Quote by Tricot View Post
    I imagine the stamp is the last step of the manufacturing process. It has to be the equivalent of the irritating "Inspected by No. 9" tags found in new garments. As the hat was complete and worthy of stamping, it would seem wasteful to scrap it for a bad stamp. Though some poor apprentice may have been rebuked.

    It raises the question, "who inspected the inspectors."

    Of course all this is theory and guesswork to justify an anomaly. I for one, am more fascinated by exceptions than rules.
    I think this is a royal splitting of hairs without much merit. I included a nicely rendered stamp, and there are many that are authentic and sloppy. I originally thought that the stamp on this senior leader cap might be odd, but I think it is fine. Don't worry about the stamp.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 06-26-2010 at 01:16 AM.
    damit, basta.

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