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Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

Article about: by Frog As re: post #56, I remember this cap well. The fellow, BM, is still trading I believe, though I have not see much of interest lately. Thanks and it is a very nice cap, really. The pe

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    I think this is a royal splitting of hairs without much merit. I included a nicely rendered stamp, and there are many that are authentic and sloppy. I originally thought that the stamp might be odd, but I think it is fine. Don't worry about the stamp.
    Good sir F-B;

    I understand. But I find the sloppiness of the stamp unique and human. Human beings created these objects we analyze and I enjoy the opportunity to ponder the hands that made them and not just the perpetrators who wore them. I have odd interests.

    Let's take the arcana of how these hats were shipped from the muetzenfabriken, I assume they were packed with tissue and individually boxed. But were the boxes packed into a larger box of say twelve? How were they shipped? By truck, by horsecart? Were trucks from the Verwaltungshauptamp sent to retrieve them?

    I'm sorry, I'm being a little silly, but these questions actually do interest me. It is within the microcosm of mundane details that an understanding of the macrocosm can occur.

    I desist.

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  3. #22

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Quote by Tricot View Post
    Good sir F-B;

    I understand. But I find the sloppiness of the stamp unique and human. Human beings created these objects we analyze and I enjoy the opportunity to ponder the hands that made them and not just the perpetrators who wore them. I have odd interests.

    Let's take the arcana of how these hats were shipped from the muetzenfabriken, I assume they were packed with tissue and individually boxed. But were the boxes packed into a larger box of say twelve? How were they shipped? By truck, by horsecart? Were trucks from the Verwaltungshauptamp sent to retrieve them?

    I'm sorry, I'm being a little silly, but these questions actually do interest me. It is within the microcosm of mundane details that an understanding of the macrocosm can occur.

    I desist.
    Goethe himself said: "menschlich, allzu menschlich...." which bears keeping in mind here. I am not an expert on all details of apparel retail, other than the internal combustion engine was less a force seventy years ago than was steam locomotion.

    One of the Deutsche Wochenschauen in You Tube treats transport, and there are many nice books on the Reichsverkehrsminister of the era, whose name escapes me.

    Many details are in the UM cd which is well worth its price.

    Happy head wear.

    PS One other source is the Duden of the era with pictures, i.e. the Bildwoerterbuch of the year 1938.
    PSS You don't find knowledge of this quality on the dwindling number of other sites of merit.
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    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 06-26-2010 at 01:56 AM.
    damit, basta.

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    You are both quite right. My experience here is limited in any event.

  5. #24

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    To roil the waters further, herewith what I deem to be a fake stamp....

    This is an above average fake. It is on a well made fake cap. Or it an authentic peak attached to a fake cap.
    or it is.....?

    It came with a cunning but fake SSTV uniform.

    The source was well known for the sale of well executed fakes at very high prices.

    As near as I can tell the ink used here is different from that of originals.

    At another, more innocent time, it would have fooled me.

    The key with the lacquered peak is its age, which usually results in crazing and other signs of age, to include the chipping off or wearing off of the lacquer to reveal the red vulcan fiber Grundstoff. Sometimes such wear is not readily obvious, but requires a lupe.


    Other fake stamps are much more ham fisted. I imagine this here was computer copied somehow from an original.

    To resume the original theme here, let me re state that I think the cap that began this thread is likely original. The up checks from Mr. Chris and Mr. Hritz carry weight with me.
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    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 06-26-2010 at 02:41 AM.
    damit, basta.

  6. #25
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    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Yes, I would think so as well. Nice-looking item.

  7. #26
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    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Ah, Goethe. He seems to be a key player in all of this.

    I imagine the combustion engines of the day were diverted for bellicose purposes. Most sundry transport, I assume, burned hay and not benzene.

    (Oh how this could easily spin into the short haul capabilities of the state rail monopoly. All because of black hats!)

    I am sure the young turks of the Wehrmacht general staff were every bit as capable at logistical rail management as their WWI counterparts.

    I have a Third Reich illustrated encyclopedia and I was surprised to see a tractor trailer comparable to its modern counterpart. Apparently they had more than quaint little panel vans.

    And I am the proud owner of said UM DVD. It is no longer on Amazon.De, but still available. A massive linguistic wall stands between me and its secrets.

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    Goethe himself said: "menschlich, allzu menschlich...." which bears keeping in mind here. I am not an expert on all details of apparel retail, other than the internal combustion engine was less a force seventy years ago than was steam locomotion.

    One of the Deutsche Wochenschauen in You Tube treats transport, and there are many nice books on the Reichsverkehrsminister of the era, whose name escapes me.

    Many details are in the UM cd which is well worth its price.

    Happy head wear.

    PS One other source is the Duden of the era with pictures, i.e. the Bildwoerterbuch of the year 1938.
    PSS You don't find knowledge of this quality on the dwindling number of other sites of merit.

  8. #27

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Quote by Tricot View Post
    Ah, Goethe. He seems to be a key player in all of this.

    I imagine the combustion engines of the day were diverted for bellicose purposes. Most sundry transport, I assume, burned hay and not benzene.

    (Oh how this could easily spin into the short haul capabilities of the state rail monopoly. All because of black hats!)

    I am sure the young turks of the Wehrmacht general staff were every bit as capable at logistical rail management as their WWI counterparts.

    I have a Third Reich illustrated encyclopedia and I was surprised to see a tractor trailer comparable to its modern counterpart. Apparently they had more than quaint little panel vans.

    And I am the proud owner of said UM DVD. It is no longer on Amazon.De, but still available. A massive linguistic wall stands between me and its secrets.
    The UM cd is a great thing indeed. Road transport via truck was well developed in the III. Reich, but of course no where as so as in the US of the era or as it is today. Rail and water transport were the chief forms of communication and transport, with aviation in a high state of polish too, of course. But the caps we collect were delivered via rail in the main, I think.
    damit, basta.

  9. #28
    ?

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Greetings gentlemen.

    Unfortunately, this General's cap has some issues.
    The sewing which attaches the peak to the cap is not authentic, it's hand done and a repair. This might explain the dubious RZM stamp. Prehaps the original peak had cracked and the one currently on the cap is a replacement and someone attempted to replicate the stamp.
    To illustrate, compare the heavy hand stitches at the front of the cap to the correct machine sewn ones at the rear.
    Whether the cap has more fundemental problems, who knows without a hands on inspection. I sincerely hope that everything else passes muster.
    Insignia look fine to me although a zinc TK and a cupal eagle is a curious miss match for a General's cap. One would have to presume that one or both badges are not the original ones to the cap, not a huge concern though.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #29

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Ben is surely a man of great wisdom in this matter, but please read my early notation to the effect that these Wagner caps are flimsy--not simply in their notorious sweat diamonds, but also overall. That is, the peaks do get loose or even fall off these caps in some cases.

    I, for one, am not put off by signs of a repair, especially if it is well done.

    In fact, the stamp on the peak seems alright to me, now that I look at it.

    But again, I am a real skeptic of these exchanges about images without an actual examination with the normal human senses.

    For the record: I own five (5) black officer's caps made by Wagner, all of this later species and all somewhat flimsy, in fact. Further, I must own 5 or more enlisted caps from the same firm, more or less of the same date of make as the cap in question. Ergo, my generalization of flimsy.

    But all of this is speculation without really taking the thing in hand and looking at it with a lupe over a period of days, that is, to assimilate and reflect on what the evidence might portend.

    SS senior officer caps attract the maximum of scrutiny, as well as very strong generalizations.

    We are glad that Ben is here, and I hope that he will not misconstrue what I have written here. I have no interest in this cap, and I do not own a senior leader cap unlike some of the more flamboyant, but poorly educated collectors or accumulators who appear on other sites.

    My Hempe book describes in detail the sewing machines employed for the attachment of the peak and band....
    Last edited by Friedrich-Berthold; 06-29-2010 at 11:22 PM.
    damit, basta.

  11. #30
    ?

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    As usual, Ben's careful analysis proves most insightful.

    Tricot, could we see shots of the entire visor attachment span under the sweatband?

    This will answer a major question, or fuel another.

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