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Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

Article about: by Frog As re: post #56, I remember this cap well. The fellow, BM, is still trading I believe, though I have not see much of interest lately. Thanks and it is a very nice cap, really. The pe

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Quote by Friedrich-Berthold View Post
    We are glad that Ben is here, and I hope that he will not misconstrue what I have written here.
    Of course not FB.

    It's just that my eye is always drawn to the individual stitches because I've lost count of how many peaks I've re-sewn now. Quite a few of them were Wagners because as you rightly point out, the original manufacturing isn't that robust. Prehaps they didn't believe that strongly in the thousand year Reich!
    The hand sewing of the peak on this cap stands out a mile wide to me but is not a major issue. It's an authentic peak of the period and that's all that really counts.
    I obviously have no problem with repairs/restoration/conservation or whatever people like to label it either. I wouldn't have taught myself the skills to do it myself if I thought otherwise.

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  3. #32

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Thanks, Ben, for your informed post. The later Wagner caps are not well made, nor are really any of those made at a time when the prices were fixed and forced downwards, there was plainly a huge rise in demand (Mr Chris Stonemint found a letter from the Wagner people were they describe their outsourcing process...) and, to be sure, probably the vulcan fiber reacts with the cotton as well as the weight of the cap on the peak pulls the peak off the cap.

    The question to ask with this cap is whether the alu piping fits into the rest of the cap. That is the 64000 dollar question.

    I for one am glad you can fix caps, because I see no sin in fixing such things as part of their evolution as an historical object. You are a European and all sorts of historical things get repaired since they are subject to physics and chemistry, to say nothing of someone trying the cap on and wrecking it.

    Mr. Tricot is a new collector, whom we should support as best we can, since he has shown above average guts in posting an object that would otherwise cause a fury of torn flesh and broken bones on the other sites. Ben is also a fine craftsman who has embraced the goddess of hat making that would make our man Hempe quite proud.

    Those who want caps virgin to being restitched or having the badges replaced can look forward to a very, very, very small collection. And, the fetish of the "completely untouched" ignores the fact that certain fixes even happened prior to 1945....
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    damit, basta.

  4. #33
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    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Oops, forgot to mention that ironicaly, the evidence of the peak having been re-sewn is good in 2 ways.
    1. It proves the point that FB has identified i.e. genuine Wagner caps were flimsy.
    2. It proves that the rear half of the sweatband is still attached as it should be and is authentic. A parts cap made to fool would not have 2 methods of stitching on the same sweatband.

  5. #34
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    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Frog, following your advise the owner has consented to the following images being shared with the wise and competent colleagues gracing the forum. The owner seeks only truth, not matter how painful or joyous it may be.

    Now gentlemen, I present you stitching...
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  6. #35

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    There is nothing particular that alarms me in these images. If Ben thinks the peak was reattached or reinforced, this fact operates within the realm of the probable especially for a cap of this make and date.

    Thanks for the nice images, as well.


    Happy stitches and Pfaff sewing machines across the abyss of time.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    damit, basta.

  7. #36
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    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    These new photos give a much clearer view, thanks.
    The 2 other photos I marked in Photoshop gave the impression that the thread used at the front of the cap was a much heavier twine than used at the rear. I can see now that it's the same thread used for the whole band, it's just that the sewing is not as neat at the front and may have been "doubled up" in places for strengh which is not uncommon.

    Sorry to have raised a false alarm. I should have asked for more photos in the first place.

    FB, thanks for those lovely images. I nearly bought this piece of sewing history but the shipping to England would have been a bit too high. How I would love to have a "Messerschmitt " sewing machine though!
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  8. #37

    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Quote by BenVK View Post
    These new photos give a much clearer view, thanks.
    The 2 other photos I marked in Photoshop gave the impression that the thread used at the front of the cap was a much heavier twine than used at the rear. I can see now that it's the same thread used for the whole band, it's just that the sewing is not as neat at the front and may have been "doubled up" in places for strengh which is not uncommon.

    Sorry to have raised a false alarm. I should have asked for more photos in the first place.

    FB, thanks for those lovely images. I nearly bought this piece of sewing history but the shipping to England would have been a bit too high. How I would love to have a "Messerschmitt " sewing machine though!
    Thanks to Ben for his intervention. When a man of his good character raises a question, we all profit from same. Others have less noble motives, but we chase them off this site where standards apply without stint. The Pfaff sewing machines for cap making are illustrated elsewhere. I used to live in Kaiserslautern, whence originated said machines. I do like the colored pictures from Peek Cloppenburg, especially of the nice young women who made the uniforms. All of this is globalized today and less edifying as a result, plainly. Thanks to Mr. Tricot for his cap. I want one, too, of course, but I am tired of paying ever more scarce cash for old hats. When I go to Peek Cloppenburg in either Berlin or Wien, I sadly do not see this nice young woman, nor the bolts of field grey cloth. The Peek Cloppenburg in Wien has really good bargains, i.e. Schnaeppchen
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    damit, basta.

  9. #38
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    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Tricot - thanks for the photos. Excellent thread, learned a lot.

  10. #39
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    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Thank you, Ben.

    There was no false alarm. You saw an area of concern and flagged it. And I am sure as you have a much more hands-on knowledge of threads and and construction, your eye will see things mine cannot.

    The sweatband thread has a "jittery" quality to the stitching all the way around. And it is doubled back in areas. I have found no empty needle holes in the leather sweatband. The sweatband itself matches another Clemens Wagner I have as do all other aspects of construction. Notable however, is the other CW has a thinner very low-weight tan/grey thread holding in the sweatband. It is much flimsier (extremely flimsy.) I think the skull may not be original to the visor as their is an outline in the velvet. The velvet itself is rich and matches perfectly the other CW.

    I cannot thank everyone here enough for all this wonderful input. It is terrifying to put such controversial objects up here for all to view. It is easier to let the sleeping dog lie!

    Now: Messerschmitt sewing machines!? This site never fails to educate.

    And here's a point about the sad political realities of the times; regarding the esteemed F-B's fascinating images of the period's tailors constructing the very garments that inspire so much rage and lust among collectors; these images have a propaganda feel. Color photography was very "high tech" at the time and more expensive, my studies are revealing how politicized daily life under the regime had become. I think there is a subtle message in these images. They seem to trumpet the "Arynization" of the textile industry.

    I think it is always important to remember the context of these objects we collect and the crucible that shaped them.



    Quote by BenVK View Post
    These new photos give a much clearer view, thanks.
    The 2 other photos I marked in Photoshop gave the impression that the thread used at the front of the cap was a much heavier twine than used at the rear. I can see now that it's the same thread used for the whole band, it's just that the sewing is not as neat at the front and may have been "doubled up" in places for strengh which is not uncommon.

    Sorry to have raised a false alarm. I should have asked for more photos in the first place.

    FB, thanks for those lovely images. I nearly bought this piece of sewing history but the shipping to England would have been a bit too high. How I would love to have a "Messerschmitt " sewing machine though!

  11. #40
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    Default Re: Allgemeine General's Visor for perusal

    Quote by Tricot View Post
    The sweatband thread has a "jittery" quality to the stitching all the way around. And it is doubled back in areas. .
    That was my concern and to be honest, I was expecting to see empty original holes at the front in the new close up photos plus an obvious change in the type and weight of thread as we moved to the rear of the cap. Glad to see that I was wrong.

    Prehaps the person who sewed this band had a few drinks the night before! It is very "jittery" comparing to what I'm used to seeing which is usualy straight as an arrow like these examples.
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